Hybrid/crossover nylon string guitars - any you'd like to rave about?

michelew
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:18 am

First of all, I'm not guitar shopping. Well not in the short-term. This is more curiosity and dreaming.

I have a Hofner HM83 classical guitar which I really enjoy playing. I love the sound of the nylon strings and in some respects the depth of the bass is richer, more complex and stronger than my steel string. The sound is great and still developing. But, as much as I enjoy the sound and the feeling, it's two inch width neck, 12-fret to the body and especially the lack of a cut away make some things I'm trying to play more difficult.

A couple of my heros play hybrid nylon string guitars, both Taylor models; Jason Mraz and our very own Nessa. I recently saw Zac Brown (supporting Jason Mraz) and he played one too (also a Taylor). Anyway they all make them sound great.

I've tried a couple of hybrids, some of which in all honesty I didn't care for, because they sounded thin....or something. They had nothing like the rich, complex resonance of my Hofner.

I was working on one of TGNessa's recent lessons today on my Hofner and the thumb wrap reminded me that my thumb complains when I try that move on it. One day I'd like to get myself a hybrid. I've read some interesting reviews, such as ones that Doug young did. There seem to be a few of them out there so I was wondering whether any of you out there play hybrids (in addition to Ness).

So if you're interested in joining this conversation tell us about your experience with hybrid/crossover guitars. Have you played them? Do you own one, if so what is it? Do you love it? Are there any you would recommend? Anything else you like to add to the discussion?

Looking forward to your views.

Thanks

Shel


Catman
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:25 pm

Hey Shel,

I own a Taylor ns74ce (Grand Auditorium body, 14 frets to the join, and a cutaway)

Unplugged, it is very articulate but not very loud. Plugged in to a decent acoustic amp (Loudbox Mini in my case), it is wonderful! And it smells fantastic! No more exclamation marks!

By articulate I mean that you can clearly hear every string and its overtones, and it is balanced--nothing drowns out anything else.

I love it but I am going to part with it. When I bought it I was into Latin music, but my musical direction has changed and I now play it very rarely (but I'll have to get it out tonight).

Cheers,
David


willem
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:57 pm

I can search the net but what is a hybrid nylon string guitar????


dougyoung
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:04 pm

There are quite a few choices out there, tho less than other types of guitars. I reviewed a batch of 5 for Acoustic Guitar some time back. and they all had strengths and weaknesses, and just plain differences. The Taylor, like you say, sounded better plugged in. Some of the models were more "acoustic" and more like a real classical. One cool one was an Alhambra. Ran around $1500 (I forget exactly) and really was like a real classical, but with a slightly narrower neck and a cutaway. The Cordoba in that review set was also really cool. It was a more pricey one, again, like $1500 or so, but I've played their much cheaper ones at GC, as low as like $300, and those are impressive, too. There are some luthiers, like Kenny Hill, who make higher end models that can be really impressive. I have a Kenny Hill crossover that's very nice, tho I rarely play it.

To the question of "what is it?", a hybrid or crossover is a nylon string guitar that's designed to be comfortable to steel string players. Usually has a narrower nut width than the 2+ inch neck on a real classical, usually has a cutaway, may have 14 frets to the body, a neck profile that's more like a steel string. They often have pickups, and may be designed to work well plugged in - perhaps with a shallower, less resonant body that's less likely to feed back. One of the earliest crossovers I know of was the Kirk Sands, whose design was borrowed by Gibson for Chet Atkin's guitar. A lot of the Nashville players play those extra thin (even solid body) nylon string guitars, which again, work great amplified. Godin makes a solid or semi-solid example.


willem
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:32 pm

Well that Alhambra sounded perfect...


michelew
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:54 pm

Thanks for your responses guys.

David - yes I've wanted to play that model. That's the on Jason Mraz plays, I think. What are you into now?

Doug - thanks. I read your reviews and found them really interesting. I'd like to try the Alhambra and the Cordoba for sure. You said you're not playing the Ken Hill one much. Is that because your style mostly suits a steel string or traditionL classical perhaps. Maybe you just can't keep your hands off of the little one with the Brazilian rosewood back and sides. :)

Willem - sorry for not explaining what a hybrid is. I take it you get it now.

Any other hybrid owners out there who'd like to talk about their experience?

Thanks.

Shel


dougyoung
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Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:06 pm

I got my Hill a number of years ago, when I was having some hand issues. The lower tension let me keep practicing. Once my problem went away, I just never find myself attracted to the sound of nylon strings. I have played some nylon string guitars that are stunning, and might keep me interested, but the one's I've liked have tended to cost a lot more than I'm motivated to spend! I'd probably just go for a full-sized nut width if I was going to spend much time with nylon anyway.


michelew
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:31 am

dougyoung wrote:
I got my Hill a number of years ago, when I was having some hand issues. The lower tension let me keep practicing. Once my problem went away, I just never find myself attracted to the sound of nylon strings. I have played some nylon string guitars that are stunning, and might keep me interested, but the one's I've liked have tended to cost a lot more than I'm motivated to spend! I'd probably just go for a full-sized nut width if I was going to spend much time with nylon anyway.
Interesting. Thanks to responding to my question Doug. Well if the sound doesn't grab you I absolutely get why you're not paying it anymore. Personally I really enjoy the sound of nylon strings and I find it adds a mellow sweetness and/or mood/emotion that's more appropriate for some songs. Sometimes the steel strings sound a little harsh to me. But...I'm sure that's got a lot to do with my playing. To date the fat neck hasn't caused me any really issues. I've even managed to do the thumb wrap thing (with effort and determination). I recently strained my thumb and so it's complaining more than before. :) I guess I should just get real. Still a cut away would be nice. My technique is not good enough to fret below the 12th fret with any degree of style. Practice, practice right? :) (end of rambling).

Thanks again for the info.

M


thereshopeyet
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:19 am

Michelle

What a great topic.

I was looking a classical guitars a while ago.

This has given me some food for thought.

It did, like anything, make me conclude you mostly get what you pay for, but then again
it's not always the case.

I was told in a guitar shop recently the best way is to take them off the shelf and play them
and find what you like best.

Not being a proficient guitarist, I felt I didn't have the ability to determine anything.
So for me I think the choice would come down to what=ever I feel comfortable with
both playing and financially.

I suppose if at my stage one also might take the choice to buy a well known make
they live by reputation millions can't be wrong.
If money weren't an issue then I don't think many would leave the store empty handed, eh?

As for your question re-hybrid strings, I can't comment

It's interesting to hear Doug Young's thought as a professional guitarist.
In one topic he explained he'd reluctantly play in Standard tuning as he was most comfortable in altered tunings.
DADGAD I think was the one in discussion ?
Like wise he personally feels more comfortable with the steel string.

Still dreaming.

Dermot


michelew
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Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:43 am

Hey Dermot,

Thanks for joining in the discussion. It's definitely great to have Doug's views as you say.

The shop keeper is absolutely right that you need to play a bunch of guitars. But don't be afraid to ask them to play a bunch of guitars while you listen too. The combo of the ones you like the feel of, the ones you prefer the sound of and obviously the ones that are within your budget should help you to short list ones you'd like it consider buying.

When I got my classical I spent the whole day playing about two or three simple songs to get a real feel for the size, dimensions and the sound. But the thing that really helped me to make a decision was sitting in front of the classical guitar specialist in the shop while he got fancy and played a bunch of different things (each of them on the guitars I liked). He also explained the differences between a bunch of them and talked me into a spruce top rather than a cedar top (due to the variety of sounds). I still love the sound of a cedar top (one day maybe). I ended up spending more than I expected to in the end, to get the sound and style I preferred (in the range I could afford of course). But I haven't regretted spending a little more.

So definitely ask one of the store musicians to play the ones you're interested in.

Have fun.

Shel


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