Andy, you are a brave man to ask me! :laugh:
A lot of music and singing from my childhood was from Sunday school or the Scouts and there were some great sing-alongs with a Christian background. I would happily welcome the hymn Jerusalem ("And did those feet in ancient times, walk upon England's mountains green") as a better English national anthem (more emotionally stirring) than the one we have ....God save me when they play God Save The Queen!! Arrrggghhh! Interestingly, the old Swiss national anthem had the same tune as God Save the Queen!
For me, the mix of sound, message, lyrics, melody and voice is what grabs me. The Christian message is a turn off, especially the bit ordering me to love God! I do not get, love of God. I do get love of my family and people close to me and people of great humanity and spirit. I do love spirituality and am greatly touched by human kindness and greatness of spirit but I have great dislike of religion and manipulation of humankind. So anything with Lamb of God or the Lord is my Shepherd etc just makes me baulk. The sheep-like state that many live in is a cause of great distress to me.
But I cannot deny that a song like Oh Happy Day really gets to me in sound and feel. At my friend Ralf's memorial concert I wanted to get everyone to sing along to that tune to the words of "Oh Ralf he Play, oh when he play". It didn't happen for many reasons but I know it would have been a roof-raiser. Gerry Rafferty's Whatever's Written in Your Heart is the same feel for me, full of human heart and spirituality. I guess a great song created with love, spirit and umpf! is always a great song. The vibe and the groove of a great song speaks to our soul directly, bypassing the courts of judgement in our minds.
To me, Christian rock is mostly in an category which is a lot more irritating than elevator music because it just isn't good. Did you see the part in the film Walk The Line where Johnny Cash is auditioning to Sam Phillips...
My Sweet Lord, now that's a song!
Why is it....?
As much as I might hate to admit it, I think Walt might have a part of the answer. It's written as a marketing tool instead of having the inspired focus that other good music does.
The skill of the musician has something to do with it, but not as much as people might think. I think back and listen to the older stuff I grew up with and most of them are loaded with warts. Missed changes, dropped lines, all kind of mistakes and errors. But they went right into it with an enthusiasm that was infectious.
Chris:
I know how you feel about the whole "God" thing. but I'm still saying you've not heard the real message yet. The real message is a lot like what you said just in a more focused way. If you think God is all about making you do something against your will, then it's a changed, mangled version of the truth. As I've said before, when you're ready, we can talk about it.
I just listened to the Gerry Rafferty tune you mentioned. It was good, but it wasn't what I was looking for. Thanx for the referral. Folsom Prison Blues Chris? Hmmm.... what does that say about you? LOL
I'm looking forward to hearing from Buddy and Bear....
The skill of the musician has something to do with it, but not as much as people might think. I think back and listen to the older stuff I grew up with and most of them are loaded with warts. Missed changes, dropped lines, all kind of mistakes and errors. But they went right into it with an enthusiasm that was infectious.
Chris:
I know how you feel about the whole "God" thing. but I'm still saying you've not heard the real message yet. The real message is a lot like what you said just in a more focused way. If you think God is all about making you do something against your will, then it's a changed, mangled version of the truth. As I've said before, when you're ready, we can talk about it.
I just listened to the Gerry Rafferty tune you mentioned. It was good, but it wasn't what I was looking for. Thanx for the referral. Folsom Prison Blues Chris? Hmmm.... what does that say about you? LOL
I'm looking forward to hearing from Buddy and Bear....
Goosebumps Willem? I agree.
I think there might be two main types of person listening to any given bit of music.
1. Those who listen closely to the lyric and consider it's message.
2. Those who consider the lyric as part of the music and not to be taken as words having meaning of their own, yet.
For this reason, I think the rhythm and the flow of a song has more 'instant' impact than the lyric when its first heard. I think there are probably more of the second type of listener. (Personal experience)
So, If it's not always the skill of the musician
and it's not always the lyric....
What does that leave us? And where?
I think there might be two main types of person listening to any given bit of music.
1. Those who listen closely to the lyric and consider it's message.
2. Those who consider the lyric as part of the music and not to be taken as words having meaning of their own, yet.
For this reason, I think the rhythm and the flow of a song has more 'instant' impact than the lyric when its first heard. I think there are probably more of the second type of listener. (Personal experience)
So, If it's not always the skill of the musician
and it's not always the lyric....
What does that leave us? And where?
I'm listening to Dark Side right now and "The Great Gig In The Sky" just leaped out at me. Not because of the lyric, but because of the pure primal emotion Clare Torry blasted all over it. Is that the secret? The more emotion we can wring from the notes, the better the song is?
Please bear with me here folks.... This is a topic that has been haunting me for years and so I'm going to see if I can't exercise it here with your help.
Oh, and I LOVE the sax in "Us and Them". Sax is such a soulful instrument.
Please bear with me here folks.... This is a topic that has been haunting me for years and so I'm going to see if I can't exercise it here with your help.
Oh, and I LOVE the sax in "Us and Them". Sax is such a soulful instrument.
AndyT wrote:
then you have a better chance of feeling it and delivering that emotion to the listener. I think the delivery and musicianship are very important, they are as important as how well written the song is and the quality of the music.
I don't exactly agree with your idea that there are two main types of listeners. I think it's more of a journey for the listener. I think on first hearing a song you are caught with the overall impression the song leaves you and also thje 'hook,' the catchy bit, usually the chorus. I think you might know then if the song has something. After hearing it a couple of times and deciding you like or dislike or are indifferent to it, then you might investigate the lyrics and what the message is, if there is one.
I agree with what UncleWalt has said about the music being manufactured.
I would compare some of the manufactured music as being like 'forced roses,' a process of forcing the flower to early maturity, the result is the roses have no perfume. That's what's missing in your church music, it lacks soul.
Tom N.
That's what I meant when I said it was about performance and selling the song. If the song isn't great then it's an uphill battle. If the song is goodI'm listening to Dark Side right now and "The Great Gig In The Sky" just leaped out at me. Not because of the lyric, but because of the pure primal emotion Clare Torry blasted all over it. Is that the secret? The more emotion we can wring from the notes, the better the song is?
then you have a better chance of feeling it and delivering that emotion to the listener. I think the delivery and musicianship are very important, they are as important as how well written the song is and the quality of the music.
I don't exactly agree with your idea that there are two main types of listeners. I think it's more of a journey for the listener. I think on first hearing a song you are caught with the overall impression the song leaves you and also thje 'hook,' the catchy bit, usually the chorus. I think you might know then if the song has something. After hearing it a couple of times and deciding you like or dislike or are indifferent to it, then you might investigate the lyrics and what the message is, if there is one.
I agree with what UncleWalt has said about the music being manufactured.
I would compare some of the manufactured music as being like 'forced roses,' a process of forcing the flower to early maturity, the result is the roses have no perfume. That's what's missing in your church music, it lacks soul.
Tom N.
Hi Andy,
This topic reminded me of an Album I purchased many moons ago and the reason I bought it was because of the artist, Jeremy Spencer ex Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac. I was a huge follower of PG FM and knew the story of how Spencer went AWOL. SO much to my surprise I saw this album a couple or three years later. Quickly got it home and cranked up the old record player and listened to some awesome guitar work and was blown away.... Then I started listening to the lyrics and thought ohhh nooo; then I took a look at the cover of the album and in smaller print under Jeremy Spencer's name was "and the Children of God". Now I really liked the music, but once i got the lyrics it turned me off. So I got the old passion in the playing, no argument but sorry this was a marketing ploy to try and sell a message... "Chldren of God was in very small print thus using the Jeremy Spencer name to sell it. I still have the vinyl, but it doesn't fit in the CD player lol!
This topic reminded me of an Album I purchased many moons ago and the reason I bought it was because of the artist, Jeremy Spencer ex Peter Greens Fleetwood Mac. I was a huge follower of PG FM and knew the story of how Spencer went AWOL. SO much to my surprise I saw this album a couple or three years later. Quickly got it home and cranked up the old record player and listened to some awesome guitar work and was blown away.... Then I started listening to the lyrics and thought ohhh nooo; then I took a look at the cover of the album and in smaller print under Jeremy Spencer's name was "and the Children of God". Now I really liked the music, but once i got the lyrics it turned me off. So I got the old passion in the playing, no argument but sorry this was a marketing ploy to try and sell a message... "Chldren of God was in very small print thus using the Jeremy Spencer name to sell it. I still have the vinyl, but it doesn't fit in the CD player lol!