Problems getting clean notes with the thumb wrap in This Shirt

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TGNeil
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:18 am

michelew wrote:
TGNeil wrote:
Michele,

Try not putting all your fingers down at the same time, place them in playing order. You don't play the C on the 2nd string until late in the measure. The order seems to be T-2-3-1. That might get every one cleaner in general.

Neil
Progress report - Neil I tried doing that. The order doesn't seem to matter. It seems to be moving my third finger to the third fret of the fifth string that mutes the first string. So I propose to use a different voicing of the Fmaj7 chord to eliminate that problem. Instead of using 133210 (FCFACE), I propose to use 103210 (FAFACE). I'm still using my thumb to fret the sixth string. The fact that my third finger is on the fourth string instead of the fifth, and my pinky isn't in play, seems to give me enough extra space to allow my hand to stay clear of the top string. The first string seems to be ringing pretty consistently now. Yeh! :)

Hmmmm... I probably should have tried harder to work that out for myself I guess.

It still sounds good to my ears.

Of course let me know if this solution sucks for some reason and there's a good reason to persist.

Thanks for the advice. I'm sure it will come in handy in other dilemmas.

Michele
Oops, I missed the fact that you were using your 3rd finger on the 5th string. Totally unnecessary I think. It should be on the 4th string. Hopefully you are on the path now.

Neil


michelew
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Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:33 am

Thanks for the confirmation Neil. Yes I think I should be able to make that work now.

Thanks again.

Michele


TGNesh
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Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:12 pm

Hey Shel!

How awesome that you're working on this song and many thanks for showing us what's happening there too! And I see you've gotten quite a few suggestions already, including from the Master. ;)

Personally my first impression was the same as Bill's, that the neck seems quite wide, which obviously doesn't make it so easy. But I guess you have reasons to like that.

Another thing, which you know by now, don't fret anything you don't need, in particular when fingerpicking. In the lesson I do point out to not fret the 5th string, since you don't need it. The chord shape for Fmaj7 will be much easier because of it already.

Of course in some situations you would need the full Fmaj7, but I might save that for another day. May I ask which part of your hand is blocking the first string? (the little finger?)

Ness


michelew
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Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:10 pm

Thanks Ness. I'm really enjoying playing this song. Thanks so much for teaching it.

Yes leaving the fifth string open, whether I play it or not, is definitely the answer to this conundrum. I thought I could do the 133210 approach, since I managed the thumb wrap on my classical for Diamonds and Rust. But, it definitely doesn't work here; which seems to be because of the width of my nut.

With 103210 (rather than 133210), I'm getting consistently clean notes and the chords changes are not hard to land so that's cool. Woo hoo! To answer your question, when I attempt 133210, the part of my hand that is muting the first string is the base of my third finger...when I reach for the 5th string, not the pinky.

So I'll just use the simpler version of the Fmaj7 and it's all good.

Thanks for responding. Love your work!

Shel

:kiss:


TGNesh
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Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:15 am

I have to correct myself, just checked again, the full Fmaj7 with a C in the bass on the fifth string is indeed in there. In general, when travispicking Fmaj7, I wouldn't use that one, but it is there in this song. Still it's not a bassnote that you would háve to play, you can get around it by not fretting/playing it and I'm glad that it makes a difference already.

As for needing to play it anyway, in maybe other situations, strumming/fingerpicking, whatever, I'm not sure, but a slight change in handpositioning (and from there to be able to change the bends in the joints of your fingers, just slightly) might be able to fix it. Of course our hands are different, and our guitars too. But personally I can make it work up to the 10th fret. I tend to believe that it's fixable for you. Or maybe the neck in indeed really too wide, hands too small relative to the neck, that all might be the case as well.

How does your full Fmaj7 work on the 4th, 3rd, 2nd and 1st fret?

michelew wrote:
Thanks Ness. I'm really enjoying playing this song. Thanks so much for teaching it.

Yes leaving the fifth string open, whether I play it or not, is definitely the answer to this conundrum. I thought I could do the 133210 approach, since I managed the thumb wrap on my classical for Diamonds and Rust. But, it definitely doesn't work here; which seems to be because of the width of my nut.

With 103210 (rather than 133210), I'm getting consistently clean notes and the chords changes are not hard to land so that's cool. Woo hoo! To answer your question, when I attempt 133210, the part of my hand that is muting the first string is the base of my third finger...when I reach for the 5th string, not the pinky.

So I'll just use the simpler version of the Fmaj7 and it's all good.

Thanks for responding. Love your work!

Shel

:kiss:


michelew
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Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:47 pm

Well it seems you're right on the money Ness. When I capo down I can already get clean notes much more consistently even on the 4th fret and then it gets easiler as I continue to capo down. In fact, when I make the chord shape and get it cleanly starting with no capo and then move the whole shape up the neck without changing the position of my fretting fingers, I can go just beyond the 6th and still get clean notes. I guess because I'm strectching with my thumb rather than my fingers. Curious. But of course, I can't be that precise when I'm playing normally.

Actually, I am getting better even at the fifth fret. Maybe my hand is stretching a little more.

Early this year I injured my hand. I'm sure my reach has been affected by that. So perhaps if I continue to stretch I may get to the point where the 133210 form of the Fmaj7 is no longer an issue while playing normally at the fifth fret.

Thanks for pointing that out. It gives me confidence in a weird way.

Champion.

Shel
:kiss:


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