String buzzing please help!

lil40
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:28 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:33 am

Sorry guys, I didn't know under which topic to post this:

Three days ago I noticed that the high E string and the B string have started to buzz, they seem closer to the fret now...

I've put it down to humidity problems, have had the (hot) air con on in the living room as even in Spain it gets cold at
night, so humidity might be too low for my poor Taylor :(

I have quickly ordered a hygrometer and a Planet Wave Humidifier but it's still going to take a couple of weeks for everything
to get here: Have you got any quick fix solutions for the meantime?? Was thinking of putting the guitar in the bathroom after I've
had a shower but then that seemed rather radical :ohmy:

Today it already sounds worse and I'm starting to slightly panick!

Any advise would be much appreciated!!!

Thanks,

Lil


thereshopeyet
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:59 am

Thanks


wiley
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:26 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:22 am

Lil,

Low humidity usually isn't a problem. Most woods used in Guitar Building (in fact, most construction of any kind) is dried before the woods are even sawn or shaped. High humidity will cause problems as water is soaked in and the woods tend to 'swell'.

I don't know exactly what Guitar you have, so, does it have a 'truss rod'?

Your problem could be several things. Firstly, dirt and oils can build up 'under' the string that normal wiping down with a towel will not clear. The same can be said about the 'top' of the fret. that being the top side of the fret against the fretboard, the actual wood. The same can be said for the bottom of the fret.

Also, when is the last time strings were changed? New strings that aren't 'set-up' correctly can cause buzz. Too small, the string can seat too deeply in the nut and buzz. Too big and they may not clear correctly as your guitar is set up for smaller gauge. Anytime the gauge of strings are changed (nearly almost) a set-up needs to be done. Going down in gauge may even require the nut be changed and re-grooved if the nut is set up for larger gauge.

Some of the plastic saddles in use today, and even some of the man-made type, will 'groove'. This usually has no effect on fret buzz as the groove is so small and so far down the string it has no direct effect on the clearance.

It sounds like your 'relief' may have changed, the neck needs some 'relief' or. in other words. a tiny bit of a bow to it. Absolutely level necks are usually not desirable. They should bow 'up' meaning the headstock should have an ever so slight rise to it from the neck joint (where the neck joins the body). This is usually done by 'tightening' the truss rod, in slow yet deliberate increments. Too much neck relief and you have a new problem, too little or even the opposite bow, and string buzz happens.

Another thing may be the bridge is 'lifting', Look at the bottom of the bridge and see if anything looks different. Your looking for any kind of crack or space that shouldn't be there.

Or, the frets themselves may be 'lifting'. Look down the side of the neck and see if the fret is pulling up. You can also remove the strings (or leave them on) and place a credit card (or small three inch or so long straight edge) and if the straight edge 'rocks' then you probably have a lifted fret wire.

One last probably unbelievable cause can be the gauge of pick you are using. If you are currently using a 'thin' gauge, try moving up in thickness a notch or two. Unless you are a 'shredder' or the like, thin picks can actually take away from the tone of the guitar. This one I learned the 'hard' way. After checking, re-checking and changing even brand new strings on my Gibson, I still heard a buzz. I took the Gibby down to the local guy and he smiled and grinned as he banged away, no buzz! He then handed me a thicker pick than I had been using. Problem solved!

Oh yea, putting the guitar in a 'shower' like you are talking about can cause a lot more damage then good. Lots of factory made guitars use glues that are somewhat water-based. Shocking them with a blast of steam can cause the glue to loosen and then you really have a problem. In the old days, and even a few nowadays, there was no truss rod. Martin and Gibson had a big lawsuit many years ago over this very thing. So, some luthiers would take the warped necks (necks can also warp side to side) and place them in a controlled, high humidity sort of closet in hopes the humidity would be replaced. Nowadays we have the technology so that the natural waters in wood are dried before anything is done.

I have seen several things on the net where folks have actually taken a glass of water, lowered it into the sound hole, enclosed the guitar in it's case and left it in a closet undisturbed for say a week or so. Problem is, what happens after the guitar is removed. That water is going to go somewhere! Even if the wood has soaked some of the water up, sooner rather than later it's going to once agian dry out!


lil40
Posts: 0
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:28 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:36 pm

Thank you for these elaborate answers! I'm glad I didn't put my guitar in the bathroom with me now :cheer:

I have a Taylor CE 114, what exactly is a truss rod, have I got one?? :ohmy:

I haven't changed my strings since I bought the guitar last August :blush: Maybe that could be the problem?

In any case I will take it to a shop (seeing that I have no idea whatsoever) and see what they say!

Thanks again,

Lil


wiley
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:26 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:36 pm

Lil,

Definitely need new strings. Probably. Really depends on how much you play and your body chemistry/how dirty your hands get, etc.

I think Niel has said he uses un-coated strings and he changes about every two weeks. Coated strings will last longer, part of the reason they are coated.

One thing I try to do (not always so good about it) is wipe down the strings after playing. I also have a 'special' little deal that actually wraps around the strings and cleans them, yet does nothing for the fretboard. I know a lot of guys who play that will wipe their fretboard and strings down even as much as between songs, has to do with how much you sweat and the conditions you are in.

Yes, your Taylor has a 'truss rod'. This is a rod that runs inside the length of the neck and is used to straighten/bow the neck correctly. Look inside the soundhole, towards the neck, and you will see a sort of 'nut' usually with a hex head (allen wrench) slot in it. Some guitars, like the Gibson I own, have the access to the truss rod at the top, in the headstock. You can place an allen wrench (some are fitted with a more standard bolt configuration, Taylors are hex). and by twisting the wrench you can move the neck. To do this, as you have already figured out, it's best to get someone who already knows how to show you.

If you take the instrument in, see how much they charge for a 'set-up'. Usually, an acoustic set-up will run $60us or so. The tech will check the neck relief (he should do this first as all other adjustments are reliant on the relief. Change one thing and it will change all the others). Then he should check the fret levels (this is done between usually no more than three frets at a time) and tighten any and all parts and pieces. He should also adjust the saddle if you want the action lowered or raised (raising the action will mean purchasing a new saddle, there are saddle 'spacers' but personally, the cost of a new Graph-Tech saddle as compared to the quality of using a 'shim' isn't worth the money). Most factory set-ups are on the high side. Lowering the action means the guitar should be more 'playable' and may or may not decrease the volume, probably not too much for the normal ear but to a 'trained' one this may matter.

I personally set-up pretty close to 'tolerance' and sometimes get a buzz when strumming hard. I don't really care about loosing volume myself, that's what amps are for. Also, make sure the tech replaces the strings with the same gauge that is now on it. I think it's pretty rare for a beginner to want to 'fatten up' the strings and most of use 12>53 (Aka "light") gauge strings. I run D'Addario EJ16's (Lights - Phosphor Bronze) on my Gibson which I use for strumming. The Seagull is more of a 'fingerstyle' guitar and I like the Martin "Silk and Steel" of the same gauge.

I'm pretty sure you'll find new strings and a good set-up will make you think you are holding a different instrument!


BigBear
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:02 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:11 pm

Lil- as usual Wiley is right on the mark except that most woods, once dried to the point of luthierie, won't absorb much mositure again. Once the cellulose structure of the wood closes it doesn't tend to open back up. If you soak a dry piece of wood in a bucket for several months it's moisture content will barely change.

That being said, I'm pretty familiar with Taylor guitars and usually when buzzing occurs it's time to adjust the neck by either tightening or loosening the truss rod. I don't mind doing this but if you are new to guitars let a competent repair tech or luthier do the work. There are several factors involved in the geometry of the guitar neck and I perfer to let the pros work on my guitars.

I strongly beleive all guitars need an initial "set-up" and it sounds like you didn't get one. Rarely is the set-up from the factory acceptable because they have to eliminate buzzing at all cost or their guitars won't sell. A set-up should cost $35-$65 and it is moiney well spent.

Clean strings are a must. If you are playing daily you should plan to change your strings at least once a month if they are un-coated and probably not less than every three months if you are using coated strings. If you have oily skin or are performing cut those times in half. Changing strings is just a good habit to get in to. Taylor has an excellent video on string changing and I've changed to their method with excellent (and fast) results.

This has been said already but once you set up your guitar stick with whatever guage strings you like and don't change. I use and recommend .012 (lights) for most players. I think this is the guage Taylor ships with. Some people like .011 (extra light) but I think you start losing tone with super light strings. Neil uses .013 (medium) which is what I use on my fingerstyle guitar.

Hope that helps! Happy playin'

Cheers :cheer:


dennisg
Posts: 0
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:34 am
Status: Offline

Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:26 pm

BigBear wrote:

This has been said already but once you set up your guitar stick with whatever guage strings you like and don't change. I use and recommend .012 (lights) for most players. I think this is the guage Taylor ships with. Some people like .011 (extra light) but I think you start losing tone with super light strings. Neil uses .013 (medium) which is what I use on my fingerstyle guitar.
Taylors ship with light-gauge strings on Grand Concerts and Grand Auditoriums, medium-gauge on Grand Symphonies, Jumbos, and Dreadnoughts

It's a good idea to continue using the same gauge string your guitar originally shipped with, otherwise the strings may not fit properly in the grooves in the nut.


tvarga
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:36 pm
Status: Offline

Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:33 am

Wow, what a timely question. In the past two or three weeks, my guitar went from having a little bit of character with just the slightest amount of buzzing on the first two strings to being unbearable. In my case, I'm pretty sure that it's due to my 2nd and 3rd frets being very worn down ... mostly under the 2nd string, but also the first string. The wear has become very visible and obvious. I think what's happening is when I play a D on the 2nd string, due the low point on the fret, the string buzzes against the 4th and 5th frets. I don't have a problem on the other strings nor on other frets. Oh well, I'll be bringing it in soon to see what can be done about it.

Anybody know what it should cost to replace a few frets?


wiley
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:26 am
Status: Offline

Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:42 am

There are two videos under "Luthiers Corner" about fret levelling and Fret replacement. Claxton also has a video dealing with fret wire and installation under the same heading.

Cost will depend on several factors, first off , what kind of guitar you have and whether or not the neck has binding. Also there are several different materials available and sizes. I believe Claxton uses Japanese Silver, or the like. Not cheap. You can also have the width and height of the frets done to specifications. A lot of folks add a bit of height to their existing frets, supposedly it make the fingering easier. Width can also do the same, supposedly.

I do have to ask a question here, since to my understanding fret wear is usually not a cause of 'buzzing' since the fret is actually lower than it should be. Have you checked the 'relief'? Remember, the neck, in most cases, should not be perfectly flat and definitely not bowed downward. It should have a bit of an 'upward' bow, as to where the headstock is actually higher than the joint, although this is an ever so slight bow. In the extreme, the neck can 'warp' (twist) or lift on one side. Very rare though with the woods and treatment even the mass produced factory guitars use today. Also, unless you are talking about a true nylon string guitar (unlike the hybrids that are so popular today in Nylon String) the neck is not perfectly flat. It has a bit of curve, or a 'hill' to it. If it's only those two frets that are causing the buzz, you may want to check the fret to see if it has 'lifted'. Again, rare today but it can happen.

Mostly, have your set-up checked before going to the expense of having the neck re-fretted. It's also a good idea that before spending the dough to have re-fret job done, see if the frets can be 'levelled' instead of replaced.

Honestly, with the time frame you are talking about, in just two or three weeks, it doesn't seem likely that the fret wear is the root of your problem.

And a shout out to Bear, you are dead-on about the fact that woods, once dried properly, take forever, if ever, to take on moisture.


haoli25
Posts: 0
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:06 am
Status: Offline

Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:45 pm

tvarga wrote:
Wow, what a timely question. In the past two or three weeks, my guitar went from having a little bit of character with just the slightest amount of buzzing on the first two strings to being unbearable. In my case, I'm pretty sure that it's due to my 2nd and 3rd frets being very worn down ... mostly under the 2nd string, but also the first string. The wear has become very visible and obvious. I think what's happening is when I play a D on the 2nd string, due the low point on the fret, the string buzzes against the 4th and 5th frets. I don't have a problem on the other strings nor on other frets. Oh well, I'll be bringing it in soon to see what can be done about it.

Anybody know what it should cost to replace a few frets?


Tom, I must be an expert on this, I am very hard on frets...they don't last long around me!!! :laugh:

Take your guitar to your luthier and let them have a look at it. Most likely your old frets can be leveled and re-crowned. The cost should be less than $75. If some of the frets are too badly worn they may have to be replaced.
Make sure they use the exact replacements specified by your guitar manufacturer. Normally the cost of replacing frets is between $25 - $35 per fret.



Bill


Post Reply Previous topicNext topic