Pickup Thoughts?

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daryl
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Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:53 pm

TGNeil wrote:
Hi Daryl,

Thanks for the message and the truth is I need to amplify the SCGC once a year at our town Christmas Tree Lighting, the first Friday in December and I just lead a few Holiday songs for the crowd. The speakers are tiny tinnie things scattered around the town plaza. This year I also did a Sing-Along for a party across the street just before Christmas. So basically, I can get away with something cheap.
Years ago I did annual concerts at Villa Montalvo and had a stereo pickup put into my travel/performing Claxton which I run through a Fishman Blender to balance the mic and transducer. It is a little more refined than what I need in the Santa Cruz, especially now that I don't perform amplified much at all.

Neil
Gee, it's almost as if you really don't need any electronics. I wonder if the sound quality of your guitar would change without the added electronics. Any chance that you could borrow an electric/acoustic for those few occasions that your needed one?


familyman4
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Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:43 pm

My thoughts on this (and they really do not matter because it isn't my guitar nor my situation) would be: While the guitar is going back together by a skilled craftsman like Mr. Hoover, I would have the pick up installed. A person of your caliber of playing never really knows when you might be called upon to play at special events and it seems to me that it is a perfect time to have the electronics installed. Using the 5 P rule you will then be prepared for opportunities that may come your way. (Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance)

My recommendation of brand remains the same as I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Bart


BigBear
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Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:26 pm

Neil-

A couple of years ago I attended a very small concert at a local music shop featuring Eric Tingstad and Nancy Rumpel. These two musicians are two of my all-time favorites. For me, their sound is magic.

At the break, outside in the parking lot, I commented to Eric on the excellent sound his small body Martin had (anyone else we know and love who plays a small body Martin?). Eric did not have a sound guy there but he was playing through a high-quality PA system.

He instantly credited K&K Sound and their Mini Pure (passive!!) pickup with his great sound. (https://www.kksound.com/). I did some research and found that K&K, a small sound company in Coos Bay, Oregon, was making some pickups that were dazzling the sound world. So I put one in my Taylor 855 12-string. The results were nothing short of amazing!! I wish I played anywhere near good enough to do justice to the pickup!!

The mini pure is their basic pickup (they have others combining pickup and microphones etc). I talked to them and they were kind and very responsive. I liked their pickup so well that that yesterday I dropped off my Larrivee L-10 at Portland Fretworks to have a Mini Pure put in. They are taking out the Fishman piezo (which I hate), replacing the bridge and doing a full setup including dressing the frets. The mini pure is basically three round tabs that glue (detachable) directly to the underside of the underside of the bridge. Because it's passive there is no battery to install. You can run it through a pre-amp but K&K will tell you that it is usually unnecessary unless you are trying to create some custom sound.

The shop tech who I have known for years, (the shop is an authorized Taylor and K&K dealer among others), made an interesting comment. He said that in their experience if you were playing large venues or stadiums Fishman or Baggs were better pickups. If you are playing smaller venues nothing can touch K&K for it's warm, balanced sound. After listening to Tingstad I completely agree. I was surprised by how many professional musicians have adopted this pickup.

You can install this pickup yourself with special glue they provide (that is not permanent). The pickup is usually around $100 plus install. Pretty cheap for this quality.

Good luck buddy!!

Bear


dougyoung
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:22 am


I wonder if the sound quality of your guitar would change without the added electronics.
The K&Ks that Neil ended up with (and that several here recommended) don't have any impact on the acoustic sound of the guitar at all. They're just little disks that mount inside the guitar and weigh almost nothing (and there's no preamp, electronics, battery, etc). That's a benefit of most SBTs, like the B-Band that Neil had previously, the Trance system, Dazzos, K&Ks, and a few others. Unlike under saddle pickups that put something between the strings and the saddle slot or magnetics that clamp across the top, there's just nothing to interfere with the acoustic sound, so they're perfect for situations like Neil's where he doesn't actually plug in that often and has a great guitar he wants to sound good acoustically. The only downside is that these types of pickups tend to be a bit more feedback-prone, but as long as you don't need to play at rock band levels, they're fine, and usually sound warmer and more natural than the alternatives.


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TGNeil
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:24 pm

Thanks for all the comments gang. I will probably get the guitar tomorrow and have a report soon. I do think the last pickup was under the saddle and am glad to be moving on to something less invasive.

Neil


dougyoung
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:33 pm

TGNeil wrote:
Thanks for all the comments gang. I will probably get the guitar tomorrow and have a report soon. I do think the last pickup was under the saddle and am glad to be moving on to something less invasive.

Neil
Oh, interesting. I assumed you had the SBT version (B-Band calls it an "AST") because you said the adhesive had come loose. The SBT, under the soundboard used a sort of double-sticky tape. The undersaddle (in the saddle slot) wouldn't have any adhesive, it's just held in place by string pressure. B-Band did have systems that included both, tho, and blended the two. B-Band made some nice pickups, it's too bad they're gone.

In any case, I imagine you'll like the K&K. You do have to be slightly careful about what you plug into with those. Any decent acoustic amp, preamp, or DI will do, but you usually can't plug directly into a PA with a K&K without a DI or preamp. Because they're passive, tbey are sensitive to the input impedance of whatever you plug into. The B-Band system had an onboard preamp that buffers you from these issues.


familyman4
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:05 pm

I also have a K&K pick up installed in an all KOA guitar. It sounds warm and very nice. Can't go wrong with a K&K...


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neverfoundthetime
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Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:32 pm

Interesting and timely thread. Looking forward to hearing your solution, Neil, and seeing how the Santa Cruz spruces up! It sure was hard to play. Getting a new set of strings after 37 years is a good start :laugh:

Funny you should mention getting a K&K for your 12 string Bear..... I could use one for my 35 year old Takamine 12 as it does not seem to work even if I replace the battery (a real pain to do that!). To even have someone look at it here it would cost already around 80 bucks, so a K&K off the bat sounds like a solution to me. They make a special version for a 12 string. Thanks for the infos Doug, helpful.

I played a local gig with Corina back in December (Christmas bash for 50 people from our tennis club) and had my new Takamine 6 string plugged in. We played for about 2 hours spread over 3. I bought it for its wonderful amplified sound and to be my travel guitar and I have kept it plugged in (to my Roland C60 acoustic amp) at home since then and play every day plugged in and its a real treat and motivates me to play. Only had the neighbours knock on the door once at midnight so far :laugh:.


dougyoung
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Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:55 am

neverfoundthetime wrote:
Funny you should mention getting a K&K for your 12 string Bear..... I could use one for my 35 year old Takamine 12 as it does not seem to work even if I replace the battery (a real pain to do that!). To even have someone look at it here it would cost already around 80 bucks, so a K&K off the bat sounds like a solution to me. They make a special version for a 12 string.
I replaced the ES1 pickup in my Taylor 12 with K&K minis, just the regular model, and that works well. I hadn't noticed they had a specific 12-string model. It looks like it's basically just their old, original larger model, which caused a lot of complaints about being overly bassy, and I think memory of the older model continues to contribute to the conventional wisdom that K&Ks are bass heavy- they came out with the minis to get a more balanced sound but people still have it in their heads from before. I guess it makes sense that the larger versions could warm up a 12-string, tho I think the minis sound fine as well, at least in my Taylor (I also have them in the little baby 12-string I have).

BTW, there's an interesting variation on the K&K design, by James May, the inventor of the ToneDexter. It's called the UltraTonic, and uses 5 disks, 4 on the bridgeplate - the 4th pickup is to address a common issue that some people find the K&Ks to have a weak high E string, and the 5th is used to tune the pickup to avoid the resonant frequencies that can become a problem at louder volumes with the K&K. It's a novel approach, but still has the simplicity of the K&K system overall. I hadn't thought about it on a 12-string, but it might help there as well to fine-tune the sound.


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:07 am

Thanks Doug, I'll take that all into account. :)


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