Re: Busking whoever whatever

timeisonloan
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:09 pm

Sorry but been that busy learning new more challenging songs to add to my "busking" repertoire, since I signed up to TG, trying to get my money's worth being a TG paying member, I have not had time to get involved in this community or any busking "whoever" debates, been trying to motivate myself into trying, but it all seems very "elitist" here and some appear to be here only for the social networking aspect? whats all that about? I thought this was a place for budding musicians? sorry but it appears to me that as per other social networking sites like two facebook, people are too busy trying to score highly on their number of "friends" tally as opposed to actually making "real" friends, please feel free to convince me otherwise! but been seeing a hell of a lot of Re: Busking Neil Young or Re: Busking Love songs or Busking whoever debates between a small group of members and was wondering how many involved in these busking "whoever" debates have actually been "busking"? Because in my experience of "busking" my measure of how successfull being, not so much how much money I made, but more importantly, how many positive comments and complements I received along the way and the real friends I made and that is my only motivation for doing it and in terms of "friendly" complements, I can only say wow, but in terms of money and believe me thats not what I am in it for, but just for the record, my best is £120 gbp ($194 USD) in 2 hours.

I just thought, if I may, I would take the time to give you my opinion of my experience of busking, while I was a student and I can tell you from experience that you cannot just busk Neil Young or whoever, to have any kind of success you have to have a diverse repertioire, you have to get a feel for your audience and if something isnt going down too well in a particular nieghbourhood, you have to be able to mix it up a bit and see whats going down or selling well, the money in the bag or lack of it speaks to you a lot, you have have some classics in the your locker and be able to keep up to date with here and now at the same time and play what's popular, simple sing along busking songs or what Neil calls "campfire songs" are way better, than ten minute solo's no matter how talented the guitarist or you have to be able to sleigh em with your own material if you have any.
I started busking because I was homeless, I was inspred by 2 factors, one that I was tired of seeing buskers who happily but badly strummed some unrecognisable tunes day in day out, but at the same time I was determined to do something with all the time I had invested learning the guitar, which my ex wife made me feel was a complete waste of time and what got me started was that I saw 2 buskers in the same street, one guy was playing some pretty impressive Gary Moore tunes, with all the amps pedals and equipment, who had a few pence in his bag and then just up the road there was Mr Tambourine Man himself, a one man band with drums and guitar and harmonica you could not ignore, belting out some Bob Dylan classics among many others in true Bob Dylan style and his bag was overflowing and he dam well deserved it and I thought to myself if I am going to busk then he is my benchmark, I think I still have a long way to go to reach that guy's level, but I have done well so far, but need to take it up a couple more notches to reach my goal and I hope with the help of TG and maybe some of the more "sociable" and less elitist TG members I may be able to convince myself that this is all worth it?


AcousticAl
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:29 pm

Welcome.

Not sure why you think its elitist here. We welcome everyone who bothers to write an intro- post. You included.
I'll try not to take offense at your comments. I might be one of the people you are speaking about. I have made quite a few new friends on here, shared emails, even met up and jammed with another member-- hope to do so again soon as well. But the social aspect of tg hasn't kept me from improving my guitar playing. That's my main reason for joining and being a Target member from the beginning.

IMHO- you're taking the BUSKING label too literally. It's just a thread that we can upload songs for fun. As you put it yourself- the measure of success isn't if you make money- but if you get positive, constructive comments.

You have an interesting story, and I'm sure you'd find many people that would like to hear more about it. But I suggest you take a less confrontational approach. You'll catch more flies with honey-- as they say.

Good luck in your guitar journey.

Al from Canada


tovo
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:31 pm

Well you sure know how to stir up a hornet's nest mate! It's not my intent to jump down your throat, but here's how I see it.

I gotta agree with Al, I don't think "elitist" is how I would describe this forum. To the very best of my knowledge, nobody is here for just social networking. All are budding musicians with various levels of experience, and everyone hopes to improve. There is no snobbery and no one is excluded no matter what their level of experience. Also agree with Al on the "busking" issue, you are taking it too literally. It's just the name for the threads. I agree with your point, if someone was going to go out with their guitar in public and play 10 tunes from the same artist, they would probably do much better to have at least one tune in their back pocket from as many artists as possible. But this site isn't so much about preparation for busking, it's just people who play, or want to play, or want to play better. it's a friendly community and I think a lot of what you have said is unfair and off the mark. If you participate, you will make plenty of real friends. If you try, you will receive plenty of praise and advice, and if you have a point to make, people will hear you out even if they don't agree. Nothing elitist about that my friend.

Why don't you post up a video and you will see how supportive people here can be? In the end though, if you don't like the vibe of the site and don't want to participate that's entirely your prerogative.


wammer
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Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:55 pm

Debate or debating is a formal method of interactive and representational argument.


hmmmmmmmmmm?

Tammy


lueders
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:07 am

Hello timeisonloan,

I wish you didn't feel the way you do about T.G. but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. Here's my two cents worth...As to the busking thing I believe,( and I can't speak for Chris (neverfoundthetime)) but I think the whole "busking" thing is just a name given to a thread of random songs that might be fun to play outside of target...perhaps for lack of a better name. It is just the name that was applied. And it has succeed in getting people more active. It has given members an outlet for tunes other than target songs and I believe it was successful in that regard. I'm no real-life busker. Wouldn't have the guts and I don't have the repertoire you spoke of. I concur with the point you are making about it not really being "true busking." I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point.

As to the rest of your post...I can see how it appears that a small group are participating. Well, that's true but no one is telling anyone else they can't participate. It certainly is encouraged by Neil and Matt and the rest of the TG team. (The more the merrier, right?) I can see where maybe it appears certain groups are speaking in their own language or whatever. (You know "inside jokes" and stuff like that) A lot of people have been here for a while (some a long while) and they have got to know each other pretty well; and have become honest to goodness friends. I think that is only natural. We're all trying to learn a musical instrument and we have that in common.I can't think of anyone that purposely excludes anyone really. I consider a whole lot of people here pleasant acquaintances and many honest to goodness real-life friends. And, a lot of the acquaintances are becoming friends. I don't think this is high school all over again...you know a popularity contest...or whatever. Most folks at TG are here to get better at guitar...I know I am. If make I make acquaintance and friends a long the way then that is great! I think community is good thing! And like any community it isn't going to be perfect.Is T.G. clannish? maybe a little bit...but I think that is 99 percent unintentional. Also, this is inevitable. Anytime you have a group of people this sort of thing happens. For another thing, much can be misconstrued in forums such as this. My words are probably coming out all wrong as I type.

I can honestly say that T.G. has helped me through a rough patch lately. And, yes it was the social side of things that helped as much as anything. (Not to give you a sob story but my Dad was killed in accident a couple of months back, I have had a rough year teaching, and my health leaves something to be desired. Neil's lesson's and the social side of things here at T.G. have been one the main things that have kept me going. And that is no joke.

Am I an elitist? I hope not. I sweat the bills most of the time. I am a lower middle-class school teacher that lives in a rundown ranch house that I rent. My wife is currently going to school and works part-time. There have been other times in my life I have lived well below the poverty line. At least socio-economically I am no elitist. I don't mean to sound defensive I just wanted you to know where I was coming from.


I hope you stick around, Man.I would be more than happy to add you on as a friend.
I think you'll find that most folks are more welcoming than it first appears...

Cori


willem
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:26 am

To met a real life busker that would be nice i have many respect to them,, i heard some and they inspirate me to learn my poor guitar...

goodluck on your yourney and remember time and life is on loan,,

stick around Buddy..


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:07 am

Hi Time, good to see you back on the forum. As a founding member you'll know what TG is all about so I'm not exactly sure what your message is. As Tony pointed out, Busking is just the name given to the platform where you can bring a song informally and share it and get feedback and it seems to be very popular as more folks than ever have posted. That was the idea behind it and TG made it possible to do it. I'm not sure which debate you are referring to so I can't comment. Maybe if you are more specific about what you mean there and what you find elitist, people could answer you better on that.

Your take on TG and the forums and the friend-making seems to have a one-sided negative slant and I'm not sure why that would be. Anyone can make or not make friends with anyone here. I know there are some real friendships which have developed here so I see it as all good as its a personal choice to make friends or not. I have no idea how many friends I have on the list (no idea where that is these days) but I do know I have some really valuable contact with a whole bunch of people that I like, respect and admire so its all win/win for me. I know there is a core of folks who post a lot and I am one of them but again, that's a personal choice anyone can make and the "clique" here is one that includes and never excludes anyone so jump right in any time, you'll be well welcomed.

As to real busking, the kind you do... bring it on please post something here if you have the opportunity. If you need help on that just ask, you will be inundated with help. I'm really happy to hear from you and we could all enjoy and learn from your real life busking experience so please tell us more about it here.

My own busking experience: Well my biggest draw back used to be I was seriously scared of performing in front of people. I knew I could sing but felt very awkward about my playing and felt so under pressure that I would blank-out in the middle of a song a not know where I was. I think everyone who's posted a video here has experienced that and I found it disabling. So I decided to go out on the streets to slay the dragon. Man that took some psyching-up to do! But I did it several times down town in Zürich and people actually stopped and listened and I made about $30 in that first hour or so and almost enjoyed it :-). Anyway it served its purpose. I really admire what you are doing as I know it's not as easy as you make it sound and if you're living off this then its a completely different ball-game. So please do tell us more, you are the real McCoy!


AcousticAl
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:00 am

Hi Timeisonloan,

I've read your post a couple of times now and I'm really trying to understand you here....

I have a few questions:

What do you mean by 'elitist'? You're looking for less elitist TG-members, when is one a less elitist TG-member?

Why do you feel that people are over here only for the socialnetworking aspect?

What do you mean by debates and debating in the busking-thread?

Other stuff is already been said, but I don't get it, at one point you say some people are here more for the social networking wich you don't get, on the other hand you're looking for more social TG-members, so how is that?

I'd really like to know...

Vanessa

btw Yes I have been doing busking myself when I was a kid and have been performing ever since in front of an audience many times...and I have written my opinion, I mean on how to do that or how to perform in front of people in general, on that in another thread, see the quote below, wich is not far from what you're saying, so I do get you on that one..

Another important thing is, at least that's how I feel, you really have to be aware of the audience and you have to interact....just lóok at them, smíle! Music is about sharing, not you just playing...React on their responses in whatever way. Check out wich songs work and wich don't. So when you make a setlist, think about what the audience might like, not necessarily what yóu like yourself the most..try to see in what mood they are, do they want to dance? Or just sit still and listen to you? And this changes during a performance, so be aware of the reaction from the audience and be flexible..


timeisonloan
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:47 am

What can I say but whoops, didnt mean to stir up an hornets nest, this is a good lesson for me, I should never comment after 12 am.

Thanks for all your comments, I appreciate them, apologies if I offended anyone, the intent of this was not to be offensive to anyone group or any individual, it just I thought or rather didnt think the time being "2am" and I had disengaged my brain, that a lot of the (I'll be careful not to use the wrong word again I said "debate", before where I meant "discussion") appear to involve the same group of users and it didnt appear to me that anyone could get involved, but thanks to all your replies, I now know that anyone can get involved, as for my social networking comments again, if you use this site for that then its up to you, but I have learned that you are clearly all good people, because not one of you jumped straight down my throat as tovo put it and thanks very much to you all for that.

Thats a fine way to introduce myself isnt it. I'll have to go and iron my hands now, or if thats not punishement enough, I can re-enact the scene from Liar Liar where Jim Carey beats himself up, to try and get a continuance in court, if you like!

Cheers


timeisonloan
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Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:24 am

I just read this a couple more times and I still cant for the life of me remember what the point of this thread actually was? but the more and more I read I can see why its hard to know from the outside looking in whether to be angry at this guy, or to laugh or what? "two facebook" indeed, I cant help but laugh at that one, but I recall I had more than a couple of drinks and I had my beer goggles on at that point, I obvioulsy thought I was making a point or 3, but now I have read it back a few more times today, well I cant think of anything to say, but I apologise if I offended anyone. B) :( :blush:


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