Collaboration of With or without you

tovo
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Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:37 pm

Hey Cori. I hear you regarding the collaboration. It was my quirky way of making a point is all. I get you (and Suzi) though....if everyone took the same approach it would be a shambles! I won't do it again.

I think that I have been provided with myriad ideas now for arranging this tune, ideas which can obviously be applied more widely. I do feel I need to work more on ideas for intros, and particularly outros.

My biggest issue with vocals (in my mind anyway) is that I have no real idea. So it's very hit and miss. But it was very nice of Ness to suggest that I might have a better range than I understand, and yes I think she has shown by example she knows what she is talking about. I'm really not that sure how to approach improvement in that area, short of taking vocal lessons. I don't want the search for vocal improvement to take me away from the focus on guitar. Yeah of course they go together, but guitar improvement is more important to me.

Thanks mate, glad you found plenty to like about it.


Hydroman52
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:23 am

Tony,

Good Job! Liked it all.

Hydroman52


Yamaha48
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:32 am

hello my friend Tony.

This sounds realy beter than your first take.
The picking part and singing,sounds very good to my ears.
But onely in the strumming part you sing it lower,thats all.

Thanks for sharing,and i know you can do it my friend.


michelew
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:12 am

Tony,

Sorry to be late to the party.

I love that you've taken some of the advice you were given and given it a go. I love that you've gotten back on the horse. I love that you're trying different things and trying to move out of your comfort zone. Great job mate.

This is a different version to the one I was expecting and really different to the last version. I was expecting Cori's strum mixed into the folk strum and maybe some more variation to the strumming. I was also expecting you to try to lower your singing a half or whole step by moving the capo to the third or second fret rather than the fourth.

So this isn't the version I was expecting. It's a much quieter version to the last. The appegios was an interesting choice. It does offer quite a contrast to the heavier strumming on the end. It's obviously really different to U2's original. But none of that is here nor there.

I have to say that I find myself liking (preferring) aspects of both versions. I preferred the singing of the first version and the greater vocal range (I sort of found your reaching for the high notes more emotional I think, but I would be interested in hearing it lowered a half or whole step). I liked the contrast in the picking and strumming from the second version, but it would be good to build on the quietness of the appegios and put in more variation as some have suggested or find another way ton add the variation and the drama. I like the down strums. I like that you're trying it on your acoustic, though I like the sort or dirtiness of the electric too.

Regarding the invisible pick, which I have trouble with too, there is a fancy pick holder that you can get (photos in my pick thread) that will allow you to switch between fingerpicking and strumming with a pick of you want to do that. You might like it.

Regarding finding the right key I like to sing against the album in different keys. I do that by using software that allows you to change the pitch. Then i know whether it is a matter of changing the key by using a capo or whether it needs to be transposed completely. I have a limited range so it also allows me to work out whether the song is even possible for me.

So in short I love seeing you working on this to shake things up and love things about both versions. You're a champion. And you've got guts.

If you decide to change things up again I'd love to see you put it back in the U2 thread even if you post it twice. I think it will bring the thread back to life and give it a 'happy ending'. Yes call me a romantic if you like. I love happy endings.

Good on you mate.

Shel


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:57 am

Really good work Tony to advance this song even further. I've listened to it several times now and re-listened to your original post and read all the comments. I reacted pretty much the same as Scott and Dennis and was looking for the earlier switch to the new strum from the arpeggio to build the drama earlier. So I'm sure that is sound advice. I know the variation in strumming will come with time spent just trying out some right hand variations and noodling with strumming but you are already making rapid progress and surging ahead and it's great to be a witness to your development.

I think your singing and sound set up on this one is really good. Its a more intimate sound and you seem very comfortable in this key and the way you smooch into the beginning of the song has your audience absolutely nailed... I think this is worth its weight in gold... especially if you have open mic in mind. Yes you have to sacrifice the octave jump, but then, so would I. If I tune my guitar down 2 half steps, I can just keep those high notes in range without screeching but it is still a stretch and I'd need a couple of days constant practice to be able to get comfortable with it. So I think the compromises you make by using this key and open chords (much better) and modulating your voice are smart ones.

All in all, this is shaping up to become a killer song for you. Bloody well done!


willem
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:09 am

michelew wrote:
Tony,

Sorry to be late to the party.

I love that you've taken some of the advice you were given and given it a go. I love that you've gotten back on the horse. I love that you're trying different things and trying to move out of your comfort zone. Great job mate.

This is a different version to the one I was expecting and really different to the last version. I was expecting Cori's strum mixed into the folk strum and maybe some more variation to the strumming. I was also expecting you to try to lower your singing a half or whole step by moving the capo to the third or second fret rather than the fourth.

So this isn't the version I was expecting. It's a much quieter version to the last. The appegios was an interesting choice. It does offer quite a contrast to the heavier strumming on the end. It's obviously really different to U2's original. But none of that is here nor there.

I have to say that I find myself liking (preferring) aspects of both versions. I preferred the singing of the first version and the greater vocal range (I sort of found your reaching for the high notes more emotional I think, but I would be interested in hearing it lowered a half or whole step). I liked the contrast in the picking and strumming from the second version, but it would be good to build on the quietness of the appegios and put in more variation as some have suggested or find another way ton add the variation and the drama. I like the down strums. I like that you're trying it on your acoustic, though I like the sort or dirtiness of the electric too.

Regarding the invisible pick, which I have trouble with too, there is a fancy pick holder that you can get (photos in my pick thread) that will allow you to switch between fingerpicking and strumming with a pick of you want to do that. You might like it.

Regarding finding the right key I like to sing against the album in different keys. I do that by using software that allows you to change the pitch. Then i know whether it is a matter of changing the key by using a capo or whether it needs to be transposed completely. I have a limited range so it also allows me to work out whether the song is even possible for me.

So in short I love seeing you working on this to shake things up and love things about both versions. You're a champion. And you've got guts.

If you decide to change things up again I'd love to see you put it back in the U2 thread even if you post it twice. I think it will bring the thread back to life and give it a 'happy ending'. Yes call me a romantic if you like. I love happy endings.

Good on you mate.

Shel

Reading Michele's respons i must say i agree very much and the software tip is a great one i think(must remember that my self) of course there are again great tips in all the other posts,,,for me writting all good tips is very difficult but i understand compleet what they all say and mean and it is not only you Tony who get good things out of that,,,i love it a,, cheers.


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:10 am

Hmmm, having tried out Ness' idea of dropping, for example, two half steps (from your original) it is much easier to start low and jump the octave on the vocals.
Swings and round-a-bouts!


MarkM
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:48 am

Tony,

Well I didn't see the first version (my apologies) as I just finally got back online after moving. You have gotten a ton of good advice here so I'll keep is short and simple. I thought this performance by you was fantastic!! Very simple but heartfelt. You could play this in any bar or open mic night and get a standing ovation. I really enjoyed this. Now a few folks said that you could go from picking to strumming and then back to picking again for the second verse. I would tend to agree with that as well. Pick the intro and first verse and then strum the first chorus. Go back to the picking for the second verse and then start to build up that strumming towards the end. Regardless of anyones suggestions I think you did a great job on this song. Its great to see you performing again. I've been away too long. Oh and I love the goatee..........




Mark


dekotaj
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:38 am

BRAVO!!!Tony-I'm a fan brother.Keep them coming!!

Kevin


tovo
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Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:53 pm

Good morning all. (Yeah I know....in the US I`m a lazy bum who sleeps until lunchtime!)

Everyone who offered an ecouraging comment thanks very much. It is appreciated.

Shel, the pick you mentioned sounds interesting indeed. I`ll get more info from you. I think it doesn`t help with the invisible picking technique that I have no fingernails. But each time I try to grow they just break off. Still tempted to go the false ones but walking into a beauty parlour is not good for an orgre and might scare the ladies. I`m with you, I like certain aspects of both versions, which is probably a good thing.

Chris I hear you mate. I think I simply need to keep experimenting with keys and octaves. I am developing an opinion that where you start is the key (no pun intended). All very interesting stuff. The earlier switch to the strum is one I agree with and Ill keep playing with the arrangement. I definitely think I need to switch back to the argeggio for the end.

Mark, nice to "see" you. Thanks for your suggestion on the arrangement. That`s pretty much the way I`m heading.


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