Mate its not a collaboration, I'm with Suzi on that, its all you ! And its a vast improvement on your first effort (which you know I kinda liked already) One point about the strumming thing and its a small point the last 'and' in each measure could be emphasised just before going to the next '1' palm mute to begin with then when you get to the 'With or without You' take off the palm mute which gives the effect of lifting the song and this may add the variety others have said. I know you didn't ask for comment this time but hey its a new song now, new guitar and new key; you could have worn a new hat though!
Even if you don't do any of these suggested changes this is great version and its yours!
Collaboration of With or without you
Tony,
You have always been a very kind and thoughtful TG member, so giving credit to others as a "collaboration" does not surprise me...however, that's all you big fella. I admire your willingness to work on and incorporate the suggestions that you asked for. Ultimately, you have to come up with a version YOU feel good about, not one that everyone else feels good about. I think it's virtually impossible to incorporate all of the suggestions you received into this one particular song. If I went to an open-mic night and heard you play either version, I would think, "nice job mate" and clap for you!
Craig
You have always been a very kind and thoughtful TG member, so giving credit to others as a "collaboration" does not surprise me...however, that's all you big fella. I admire your willingness to work on and incorporate the suggestions that you asked for. Ultimately, you have to come up with a version YOU feel good about, not one that everyone else feels good about. I think it's virtually impossible to incorporate all of the suggestions you received into this one particular song. If I went to an open-mic night and heard you play either version, I would think, "nice job mate" and clap for you!
Craig
I appreciate all the comments very much. I'm just going to focus on the suggestions. Trust me like we all do I read and appreciate every "good job".
Scott: Yeah your suggestion makes perfect sense. As I played with the arrangement I had intended to return to the arpeggio at the end. I found it a little difficult to make the transition but I think you're right, so I'll try to incorporate that. I also thought that perhaps the down strums weren't as full as they could be, which is I think what you are saying there? Thanks Scott, in a very short time on the site you have contributed a lot.
Buddy: This is exactly what TG is about, I agree.
Suzi: Thanks for the suggestions. I sure tried the variety of throwing in some upstrums. I find the "invisible pick" technique quite difficult and need more work on it. I had a few goes at the recording, and each time thought the strumming sounded too heavy. I kept trying to make it lighter. I find at this time that when I use upstrums I'm pretty "clunky". The suggestion of variety is one I get quite a bit, so it's one I'll keep working on.
Take your point on the collaboration. I wanted to make a point about how much I was assisted. But sure, it's obviously not really a collaboration.
Ness: Thanks for giving me more. First I understand that by taking the capo away I've made the key higher. That's a good start for me, my theory is really poor, something I need to work on. The way I decided was, well I tried everything. Going up the neck a half-step as I took from the suggestions didn't seem to work for me. Importantly, I changed the chords I was using entirely. The original I was using G, D, Em, C. (Capo at 4th). So I switched to Cori's suggestion of D, A, Bm, G. After I did that, capo at the 4th didn't work at all. I sort of understand transposing...but sort of don't as well! Anyway, as I experimented with the new chords, without the capo seemed the best. OK...I hope that makes some sense. I re-read your post just now, and I will sure keep up the experiment, as I think I am learning a lot from this 4 chord tune that I am finding (like many tunes) has much more to it than meets the eye. Thank you Ness.
Chas: I'll need to talk to you about your suggestion for tweaking the strumming, only because I think I get it but I'd like to be sure.
Craig: You're right of course, trying to incorporate all suggestions is difficult and no doubt rarely the smart thing to do. I'm just trying to incorporate the ones that made a lot of sense once I really considered them, and there were many.
Scott: Yeah your suggestion makes perfect sense. As I played with the arrangement I had intended to return to the arpeggio at the end. I found it a little difficult to make the transition but I think you're right, so I'll try to incorporate that. I also thought that perhaps the down strums weren't as full as they could be, which is I think what you are saying there? Thanks Scott, in a very short time on the site you have contributed a lot.
Buddy: This is exactly what TG is about, I agree.
Suzi: Thanks for the suggestions. I sure tried the variety of throwing in some upstrums. I find the "invisible pick" technique quite difficult and need more work on it. I had a few goes at the recording, and each time thought the strumming sounded too heavy. I kept trying to make it lighter. I find at this time that when I use upstrums I'm pretty "clunky". The suggestion of variety is one I get quite a bit, so it's one I'll keep working on.
Take your point on the collaboration. I wanted to make a point about how much I was assisted. But sure, it's obviously not really a collaboration.
Ness: Thanks for giving me more. First I understand that by taking the capo away I've made the key higher. That's a good start for me, my theory is really poor, something I need to work on. The way I decided was, well I tried everything. Going up the neck a half-step as I took from the suggestions didn't seem to work for me. Importantly, I changed the chords I was using entirely. The original I was using G, D, Em, C. (Capo at 4th). So I switched to Cori's suggestion of D, A, Bm, G. After I did that, capo at the 4th didn't work at all. I sort of understand transposing...but sort of don't as well! Anyway, as I experimented with the new chords, without the capo seemed the best. OK...I hope that makes some sense. I re-read your post just now, and I will sure keep up the experiment, as I think I am learning a lot from this 4 chord tune that I am finding (like many tunes) has much more to it than meets the eye. Thank you Ness.
Chas: I'll need to talk to you about your suggestion for tweaking the strumming, only because I think I get it but I'd like to be sure.
Craig: You're right of course, trying to incorporate all suggestions is difficult and no doubt rarely the smart thing to do. I'm just trying to incorporate the ones that made a lot of sense once I really considered them, and there were many.
I appreciate all the comments very much. I'm just going to focus on the suggestions. Trust me like we all do I read and appreciate every "good job".
Scott: Yeah your suggestion makes perfect sense. As I played with the arrangement I had intended to return to the arpeggio at the end. I found it a little difficult to make the transition but I think you're right, so I'll try to incorporate that. I also thought that perhaps the down strums weren't as full as they could be, which is I think what you are saying there? Thanks Scott, in a very short time on the site you have contributed a lot.
Buddy: This is exactly what TG is about, I agree.
Suzi: Thanks for the suggestions. I sure tried the variety of throwing in some upstrums. I find the "invisible pick" technique quite difficult and need more work on it. I had a few goes at the recording, and each time thought the strumming sounded too heavy. I kept trying to make it lighter. I find at this time that when I use upstrums I'm pretty "clunky". The suggestion of variety is one I get quite a bit, so it's one I'll keep working on.
Take your point on the collaboration. I wanted to make a point about how much I was assisted. But sure, it's obviously not really a collaboration.
Ness: Thanks for giving me more. First I understand that by taking the capo away I've made the key higher. That's a good start for me, my theory is really poor, something I need to work on. The way I decided was, well I tried everything. Going up the neck a half-step as I took from the suggestions didn't seem to work for me. Importantly, I changed the chords I was using entirely. The original I was using G, D, Em, C. (Capo at 4th). So I switched to Cori's suggestion of D, A, Bm, G. After I did that, capo at the 4th didn't work at all. I sort of understand transposing...but sort of don't as well! Anyway, as I experimented with the new chords, without the capo seemed the best. OK...I hope that makes some sense. I re-read your post just now, and I will sure keep up the experiment, as I think I am learning a lot from this 4 chord tune that I am finding (like many tunes) has much more to it than meets the eye. Thank you Ness.
Chas: I'll need to talk to you about your suggestion for tweaking the strumming, only because I think I get it but I'd like to be sure.
Craig: You're right of course, trying to incorporate all suggestions is difficult and no doubt rarely the smart thing to do. I'm just trying to incorporate the ones that made a lot of sense once I really considered them, and there were many.
Scott: Yeah your suggestion makes perfect sense. As I played with the arrangement I had intended to return to the arpeggio at the end. I found it a little difficult to make the transition but I think you're right, so I'll try to incorporate that. I also thought that perhaps the down strums weren't as full as they could be, which is I think what you are saying there? Thanks Scott, in a very short time on the site you have contributed a lot.
Buddy: This is exactly what TG is about, I agree.
Suzi: Thanks for the suggestions. I sure tried the variety of throwing in some upstrums. I find the "invisible pick" technique quite difficult and need more work on it. I had a few goes at the recording, and each time thought the strumming sounded too heavy. I kept trying to make it lighter. I find at this time that when I use upstrums I'm pretty "clunky". The suggestion of variety is one I get quite a bit, so it's one I'll keep working on.
Take your point on the collaboration. I wanted to make a point about how much I was assisted. But sure, it's obviously not really a collaboration.
Ness: Thanks for giving me more. First I understand that by taking the capo away I've made the key higher. That's a good start for me, my theory is really poor, something I need to work on. The way I decided was, well I tried everything. Going up the neck a half-step as I took from the suggestions didn't seem to work for me. Importantly, I changed the chords I was using entirely. The original I was using G, D, Em, C. (Capo at 4th). So I switched to Cori's suggestion of D, A, Bm, G. After I did that, capo at the 4th didn't work at all. I sort of understand transposing...but sort of don't as well! Anyway, as I experimented with the new chords, without the capo seemed the best. OK...I hope that makes some sense. I re-read your post just now, and I will sure keep up the experiment, as I think I am learning a lot from this 4 chord tune that I am finding (like many tunes) has much more to it than meets the eye. Thank you Ness.
Chas: I'll need to talk to you about your suggestion for tweaking the strumming, only because I think I get it but I'd like to be sure.
Craig: You're right of course, trying to incorporate all suggestions is difficult and no doubt rarely the smart thing to do. I'm just trying to incorporate the ones that made a lot of sense once I really considered them, and there were many.
Tony- WOW! A dramatically better version! The key change fits your voice and the arpeggiated style sets off your vocals and contributes to the slower tempo.
Talk about taking the feedback you received to heart and doing something positive with it!!!
Well done mate!! :cheer:
Talk about taking the feedback you received to heart and doing something positive with it!!!
Well done mate!! :cheer:
Tony, this is a huge improvement in almost every area, so you should be proud of what you accomplished. Really well done.
Something I really like that you did was to start out with a repetition of the four arpeggiated notes, then a little later you added in two notes in between the measures, which added some movement and subtle drama to the piece.
I think you could have added more dramatic flow to the song had you transitioned to the strum considerably earlier, say, at 1:01, then returned to the arpeggio for the last bit of the song.
There's something Suzi said that I think is really, really important and merits repeating -- and it's something we talked about when you were in Seattle: varying your strumming. You have a tendency to get into a strumming pattern and rhythm, and stay there. I'd love to see you sometimes put emphasis on the first beat of a measure, then change that up by skipping a beat here and there, then change that up by doubling beats occasionally. And/or start off the strumming section very gently, then build it in volume and intensity as you move through it. By the time you're finished with the strumming section, and returning to the arpeggio, your audience is glued to you because you're taking them on an exciting ride that twists and turns on mountain highways, instead of a cruise along a straight freeway. Otherwise, what happens is that you just end up using the same strum for the duration of a song. There's an improvement to this particular song in that you broke things up by adding the arpeggiated section, but you can break things up even more by varying the strum within the same song.
When I saw Cori's video, I didn't take it to mean "Whenever you strum, you should be strumming like this!" I took it to mean that here's one of the various strumming patterns, among others, you could be switching to in the song.
I loved your new recording setup. Sounded absolutely beautiful, and I'm envious as hell. I'd probably turn the reverb on your vocal mike down a bit.
All in all. Tony, this video shows big progress, and that's exactly how you want to respond to input.
Something I really like that you did was to start out with a repetition of the four arpeggiated notes, then a little later you added in two notes in between the measures, which added some movement and subtle drama to the piece.
I think you could have added more dramatic flow to the song had you transitioned to the strum considerably earlier, say, at 1:01, then returned to the arpeggio for the last bit of the song.
There's something Suzi said that I think is really, really important and merits repeating -- and it's something we talked about when you were in Seattle: varying your strumming. You have a tendency to get into a strumming pattern and rhythm, and stay there. I'd love to see you sometimes put emphasis on the first beat of a measure, then change that up by skipping a beat here and there, then change that up by doubling beats occasionally. And/or start off the strumming section very gently, then build it in volume and intensity as you move through it. By the time you're finished with the strumming section, and returning to the arpeggio, your audience is glued to you because you're taking them on an exciting ride that twists and turns on mountain highways, instead of a cruise along a straight freeway. Otherwise, what happens is that you just end up using the same strum for the duration of a song. There's an improvement to this particular song in that you broke things up by adding the arpeggiated section, but you can break things up even more by varying the strum within the same song.
When I saw Cori's video, I didn't take it to mean "Whenever you strum, you should be strumming like this!" I took it to mean that here's one of the various strumming patterns, among others, you could be switching to in the song.
I loved your new recording setup. Sounded absolutely beautiful, and I'm envious as hell. I'd probably turn the reverb on your vocal mike down a bit.
All in all. Tony, this video shows big progress, and that's exactly how you want to respond to input.
Hi Tony, I liked your first posting and this one is better but I thought you are doing great on both. I have no knowledge in arrangement but I agree with some strumming variation would allow to increase the intensity and give a bit more fills instead of downstrokes only which only allows you to hit hard harder and faster to create the effect. I am always amazed how well you react to comments, it is always so positive . You are such a good example to follow.
I am really anxious to this open mic of yours
Marc
I am really anxious to this open mic of yours
Marc
Again, I acknowledge and appreciate the "well done" comments. Thanks very much.
Den there's an popular duet on the internet called "Boyce Avenue" who do a very beautiful version of this song (I think). I got the opening arpeggio from them. Thing is though, that as they are a duet they can fill the space a bit better, so I didn't think it would be very interesting all the way through. That's why I added the extra arpeggio notes. I was pleased to read that you thought it added something. I also thought I could have transitioned earlier, and then back.
I think that overall, I am a much better picker than strummer. The 2 target tunes I am working hard on are both picking tunes. Makes sense then to work harder on my weakness in future. I understand the value of variation, I just need to take more opportunity to incorporate that, through experimentation and focusing on the "winding journey instead of the straight freeway." I like that analogy.
I didn't take Cori's suggestion to mean "This is the way to play it all the way through". Didn't mean it to come across like that.
The new setup isn't quite complete, but I like it as well. Obviously I was inspired by your setup.
Thanks Dennis
Marc. Thanks mate. You wrote: "I am always amazed how well you react to comments, it is always so positive." I don't think that has always been true, but that's the plan.
Den there's an popular duet on the internet called "Boyce Avenue" who do a very beautiful version of this song (I think). I got the opening arpeggio from them. Thing is though, that as they are a duet they can fill the space a bit better, so I didn't think it would be very interesting all the way through. That's why I added the extra arpeggio notes. I was pleased to read that you thought it added something. I also thought I could have transitioned earlier, and then back.
I think that overall, I am a much better picker than strummer. The 2 target tunes I am working hard on are both picking tunes. Makes sense then to work harder on my weakness in future. I understand the value of variation, I just need to take more opportunity to incorporate that, through experimentation and focusing on the "winding journey instead of the straight freeway." I like that analogy.
I didn't take Cori's suggestion to mean "This is the way to play it all the way through". Didn't mean it to come across like that.
The new setup isn't quite complete, but I like it as well. Obviously I was inspired by your setup.
Thanks Dennis
Marc. Thanks mate. You wrote: "I am always amazed how well you react to comments, it is always so positive." I don't think that has always been true, but that's the plan.
Good Golly, you can't afford to log off around here; CAN YA?...you'll miss something good!!!!
I'm with Suzi, no need to call this a collaboration.(If this is a collaboration, then virtually every video ever shown at T.G. has been one.) I get what you're saying/trying to express with that sentiment...and I am sure everyone who offered suggestions last time understands as well. But lets not call it something it isn't.What it is rather, is a fine utilization of the constructive advice that was offered by MANY FOLKS...which was made possible by the general caring, & camaraderie that I believe exists here. It is a reminder of what can happen; when we remember why we are here...
I like your arrangement choices here Tony, very nice job with that!!! I thought the picking was really a nice touch. And the contrast of the picking going into the strums really, really worked nicely!! I will agree with Scott that you COULD play up the drama even more IF you wanted to.( i.e the subtle build-up thing) If I saw this just as you did it, at an open mic I would think it was wonderful...NO JOKE! I am REALLY liking the contrasts now! Like I said, the picking was really cool and the strumming works MUCH better now. One thing you might wanna think about also, is a real short & sweet INTRO. I saw one tabbed that actually sounds right/good. It amounts to about six notes & a few harmonics. If you decided to add something like that in there too, you would have yet another sonic texture for contrast & a little foreshadowing for your audience. (I just bring it up because, it could be the optional icing atop a tasty cake!! lol!!)
On the singing, well, SHOCKER! can't help you there... I will defer to the advice offered to you by my singing guru, the Baron-Ness of Musicality.For what it is worth, I do think your vocals had more of a relaxed, even sweeter quality this time out. (Heck, I thought your vocals were good last time, too. & I wasn't alone...) I dunno what to tell ya about going up and down octaves. I am happy when I can hit about two and a half notes in one octave. lol! But, if there is one thing I know it is that Vanessa knows her stuff. If she thinks you can do the two octave range in one key, thing...well, I'm sure you can. (I gotta say,though I think it sounds rather nice just like it is...A two octave range blows my mind!) Modulating from one key to another, (even though it isn't done in the original song) might be a possibility too.(Which isn't as big a deal as it sounds like) I am sure you don't want it to sound like some cheesy Country N" Western modulation deal, though. LOL!
Great JOB, TONY!!!!!!
:laugh: I was really impressed!!!!
Cori
I'm with Suzi, no need to call this a collaboration.(If this is a collaboration, then virtually every video ever shown at T.G. has been one.) I get what you're saying/trying to express with that sentiment...and I am sure everyone who offered suggestions last time understands as well. But lets not call it something it isn't.What it is rather, is a fine utilization of the constructive advice that was offered by MANY FOLKS...which was made possible by the general caring, & camaraderie that I believe exists here. It is a reminder of what can happen; when we remember why we are here...
I like your arrangement choices here Tony, very nice job with that!!! I thought the picking was really a nice touch. And the contrast of the picking going into the strums really, really worked nicely!! I will agree with Scott that you COULD play up the drama even more IF you wanted to.( i.e the subtle build-up thing) If I saw this just as you did it, at an open mic I would think it was wonderful...NO JOKE! I am REALLY liking the contrasts now! Like I said, the picking was really cool and the strumming works MUCH better now. One thing you might wanna think about also, is a real short & sweet INTRO. I saw one tabbed that actually sounds right/good. It amounts to about six notes & a few harmonics. If you decided to add something like that in there too, you would have yet another sonic texture for contrast & a little foreshadowing for your audience. (I just bring it up because, it could be the optional icing atop a tasty cake!! lol!!)
On the singing, well, SHOCKER! can't help you there... I will defer to the advice offered to you by my singing guru, the Baron-Ness of Musicality.For what it is worth, I do think your vocals had more of a relaxed, even sweeter quality this time out. (Heck, I thought your vocals were good last time, too. & I wasn't alone...) I dunno what to tell ya about going up and down octaves. I am happy when I can hit about two and a half notes in one octave. lol! But, if there is one thing I know it is that Vanessa knows her stuff. If she thinks you can do the two octave range in one key, thing...well, I'm sure you can. (I gotta say,though I think it sounds rather nice just like it is...A two octave range blows my mind!) Modulating from one key to another, (even though it isn't done in the original song) might be a possibility too.(Which isn't as big a deal as it sounds like) I am sure you don't want it to sound like some cheesy Country N" Western modulation deal, though. LOL!
Great JOB, TONY!!!!!!
:laugh: I was really impressed!!!!Cori