SOUND CLOUD: Sharing a better sound

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neverfoundthetime
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:49 am

Hi guys. After listening to the awful sound quality of our (Daryl and myself) latest uploaded video, I decided to join SoundCloud which I noticed others using (Buddy and Peter). When we post a video here the sound gets mangled twice, first by the video mixing process and then by the upload to YT. I'd like to share the best quality sound I can make, so I will upload audio files to SoundCloud in futur and link to TG.

If anyone has experience of using SoundCloud, please post experience and tips here so that we can all benefit and also hook up on SoundCloud too. That would be cool! I will post a link to Play Me as soon as I have uploaded to SoundCloud.

Our sound and tech wizards can chime in here too as the idea is to share a better sound, so Al, that means YOU! ;-) We have had several threads on these issues before but I don't always remember the details unless I have actually used the ideas at the time.

Chris


wiley
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:19 am

Chris,

I know it's frustrating knowing what you 'put down' and hear on your recording device (whatever that may be) and then listening to it on YT.

You are referring in part to what happens when we upload and then listen to download. Simply put, the software 'compresses' and even removes certain frequencies to make the stream 'fit'. It's why I laugh when I see someone listening to an MP3 player or their cell phone and insisting they get great audio because they have some big name brand $200+us headphones on.

So several things;

"Crap in = Crap out" no insult here, just the equipment in use on the 'recording' does have a lot to do with the reproduction quality. A $40 usb mic plugged into a laptop is not going to capture the same sound as say a Shure SM7B plugged into a Apogee AI and then into a specific computer used for sound and recording only.

And then no matter if you use a $400 broadcast mic and so on,

End product. All I can say is refer to the first statement, those $200 headphones do not sound the same plugged into a $20 box or even a top of the line cell phone as compared to sitting in a 'sweet spot' in a studio with a pair of Equator Audio 15inch monitors. Technology as it is now doesn't allow us to do so.

In closing, I can guarantee you I hear the upload in a different manner due to the 'low end' equipment I have which is leaps above the 'normal'. I run, for now, a Focusrite AI which outputs to a Isolation Transformer/selector switch (since I use several different speaker systems in my 'Man Cave') and normally I output that to a pair of M-Audio BX 5a speakers. Even then, playing an audio CD using the laptop and comparing it to a stream is in no comparison.

Somewhere out there is a chart made by some engineer. It shows why his "Stuff sounds like Crapola" and follows the chain. In short, after building a half million dollar studio the 'end' product goes like this;

$40 month cell phone + $1.29 download + .$1.99 earbuds!!!


tombo1230
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:28 am

neverfoundthetime wrote:
Hi guys. After listening to the awful sound quality of our (Daryl and myself) latest uploaded video, I decided to join SoundCloud which I noticed others using (Buddy and Peter). When we post a video here the sound gets mangled twice, first by the video mixing process and then by the upload to YT. I'd like to share the best quality sound I can make, so I will upload audio files to SoundCloud in futur and link to TG.

If anyone has experience of using SoundCloud, please post experience and tips here so that we can all benefit and also hook up on SoundCloud too. That would be cool! I will post a link to Play Me as soon as I have uploaded to SoundCloud.

Our sound and tech wizards can chime in here too as the idea is to share a better sound, so Al, that means YOU! ;-) We have had several threads on these issues before but I don't always remember the details unless I have actually used the ideas at the time.

Chris
Hi Chris, (tips)
if you want better sound, work in 24 bit instead of 16 bit. 16 bit can get muddy when doing multi track editing of sound. Don't compress the final sound by making an mp3, this usually lowers the quality of the final sound. If you record good quality and maintain it through the process the results will be better. (I am not referring to this recording, just good practice in general).

Your sound is only as good as the weakest link. If you start off with for instance, mp3 recordings of vocals or guitars, then no matter how well you look after the signal sound, it won't improve or sound good. Record high quality, process high quality through DAW, result..... high quality sound. :)

(DAW =Digital Audio Workstation).

Tom N.


wiley
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:46 am

Chris

I should say you are correct in saying soundcloud will have better audio quality simply because it has no video.

And before we get started on what bit and kHz, what are you using to record your stuff with?

24 bit at 48 kHz is the 'normal' recording rate, then it can be *truncated down to 16bit at 41.8 kHz for 'mastering' (or not).

What I hear on my setup is like to much reverb - the vocals sound as if they are in the 'back of the room' when compared to the guitar.

I wonder if the original was in 'stereo' or panned, YT uses only mono reproduction so the 'stereo' and panning is of no use when you know that's where your going.

*Truncation can cause distortion in a lot of opinions.


tombo1230
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:44 am

wiley wrote:
Chris

I should say you are correct in saying soundcloud will have better audio quality simply because it has no video.

And before we get started on what bit and kHz, what are you using to record your stuff with?

24 bit at 48 kHz is the 'normal' recording rate, then it can be *truncated down to 16bit at 41.8 kHz for 'mastering' (or not).
Can you clarify what you mean Willey, when you say 'soundcloud will have better audio quality simply because it has no video.'? Do you mean they don't have the same space issues, so don't need to compress or compress as much, or something else?

Not everyone records, or knows to record, or has the gear to record at a high bit rate. A higher bit rate takes you further away from floor noise, so when increasing gain you don't increase noise as much.

Tom N.


willem
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:25 pm

I wonder what you can do a bout this on you tube it self, there is some stuff that can make it all better, but never had a look at it.

willem


wiley
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:38 pm

Tom,

I made an assumption that since SC need not use something like MPEG, which codes both Video and Audio, there would be more headroom. I have no research other than my own ear to justify such a statement.

An example I did find suggest strongly that the user, the 'uploader' rushes the process and therefore the entire data package is not delivered before YT processes. The upload is stopped and goes from there, ergo, bad audio?

In the spirit of KISS;

An MP3 download as compared to a 'standard' CD (Compact Disc) has a ratio of around 11:1 compression.

- A few definitions are needed before going any further;

"Bit" is in two flavors here, the difference in 16 bit depth and 24 bit is pretty big. This particular 'bit' is called "Bit Depth". An decent analogy would be just how thick a book would be, and the increase goes like this;

16 bit depth = 65,536 possible levels (pages)

For each 'bit' of resolution we double the depth so,

24 bit depth = 16,777,216 possible levels (pages)

Big, big difference.


Now, add in "TIME" and we get 'sample rate' or the kHz we keep bringing up. A standard CD uses 44.1khz at usually 16bit depth. Simply put, that's how many times we can 'slice' the audio per second, the higher the number the more 'slices' lower, the less. Or, at 44.1kHz we can 'slice' 44 thousand 100 each second, at 96kHz, that's 96 thousand, at 22.05 it's 22 thousand and fifty and so on.

Last ingredient - sampling. or "Bit Rate" - how much data is required to transmit said file.

File Sizes For Stereo Digital Audio;

Bit Depth Sample Rate Bit Rate 1 Stereo Minute 3 Minute Song
16 44,100 1.41 Mbps 10.1 MB 30.30 MB
16 48,000 1.46 Mbps 11.0 MB 33.00 MB
24 96,000 4.39 Mbps 33.0 MB 99.00 MB
mp3 128 k/bit rate 0.13 Mbps 0.94 MB 2.82 MB


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neverfoundthetime
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Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:13 pm

Thanks for the input guys. I understand most of it. I am using the Tascam to record vocals, not sure what Daryl uses. I am using professional quality DAW (Adobe Audition) on my laptop and 24 bit files saving to wav files before destroying it all when going to AVS for the video mix!


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neverfoundthetime
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Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 pm

Here's the link to SoundCloud, compare the sound quality:



Tom, Wiley, I am actually using 32 Bit files, so I sure hope I'm getting some depth of sound here!!


willem
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Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:53 pm

I listen to both versions a few times and the sound cloud version is much richer and cleaner, i found now that the you tube version has a dark sound.
I listen this on my tablet(a good one),tomorrow I try my laptop.

much much better but did you made also some adjustments? Or was it pure as it was?

willem


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