GREAT GUITARISTS: WHAT IS IT THAT THEY DO SO WELL?
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neverfoundthetime
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I know almost nothing about who the great guitarists are and less about why they are considered great. I've heard names mentioned here and through history, Clapton, Hendrix, Page, Beck, Gilmour, SRV, BB King, Albert King, Muddy Waters, Kossof, Robert Johnson etc. This discussion section is all about them. But what I'd really like to know is WHAT IS IT THEY DO SO WELL so that we call them great. So here's a thread that may give me and all the other TG-ers who are not quite so savvy, more of an overview about what makes these great performers so good and what to look or listen for. Please post videos and tell us about the guitarist and what makes him/her so good. Really interested to have this information compactly available in one thread (if that is possible?)!
I think the first difference is true musicians use music as a form of expression, almost like another voice. They express themselves this way as natually as if they were speaking. They "feel" the music and can manipulate it to suit their message.
Whereas people like me, who I will politely call "mechanics", are like parrots. They hear the music and have acquired enough skills to regurgitate the sounds and make them sound similar and on occasion, pleasing. There is sound but no soul. This sounds pretty harsh but it is a fact. If it ain't your song you are trying to mimic the feel of the guy that wrote or played it.
The truly great ones have learned how to connect with their listeners at a more basic, almost subconscious level. Whereas when I play a song, I'm not really connecting with anyone. If I play well, I am simply helping the listener to remember the connection that the composer or original artist established.
If you don't believe this theory, look at the thread "Covers Better Than the Original". The very best covers make this connection with the listener as well, and in some cases, better than the original. But it takes someone who can "speak" music to do this!
Cheers! :cheer:
Whereas people like me, who I will politely call "mechanics", are like parrots. They hear the music and have acquired enough skills to regurgitate the sounds and make them sound similar and on occasion, pleasing. There is sound but no soul. This sounds pretty harsh but it is a fact. If it ain't your song you are trying to mimic the feel of the guy that wrote or played it.
The truly great ones have learned how to connect with their listeners at a more basic, almost subconscious level. Whereas when I play a song, I'm not really connecting with anyone. If I play well, I am simply helping the listener to remember the connection that the composer or original artist established.
If you don't believe this theory, look at the thread "Covers Better Than the Original". The very best covers make this connection with the listener as well, and in some cases, better than the original. But it takes someone who can "speak" music to do this!
Cheers! :cheer:
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neverfoundthetime
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Interesting point Rick. I know what connects with me... the vibe of a voice, the melody and the setting (atmosphere) of the chord sequence are all things I'm aware of that reach me. I'm sure you are not totally devoid of these grabbers when you play as you think!If you don't believe this theory, look at the thread "Covers Better Than the Original". The very best covers make this connection with the listener as well, and in some cases, better than the original. But it takes someone who can "speak" music to do this!
I remember walking out early on Al De Meloa and Eric Clapton at their respective concerts in Zürich as I got bored. De Meola just seemed to be doing scales as fast as he could whizzing endlessly up and down really fast. Just because you can do it, doesn't make it nice to listen to. Clapton played all his bluesy stuff but nothing much I recognised. didn't connect. I listened to Julian Bream in a Norwich church once, wonderful acoustic experience. Connected.
My question is: If you say such and such a guitarist is great. What is that he does so well? What is it that SRV is doing? What is it that Tommy Emmanuel is doing? What is it that any of these "greats" are doing that reaches us, specifically?
Any offers....
neverfoundthetime wrote:
I think that we can over-analyse this and look for specificity that doesn't exist. Just like with any art form - what makes a connection with one person may completely miss the next person. Much of the connection is created by what someone plays - not how well they play it. I don't like jazz music. I'd find it hard to connect to a jazz guitarist. I did, however, find a connection to Willem's version of Everybody Hurts. Willem would probably agree that he is not as good a guitarist as say, Martin Taylor, but Martin Taylor can't reach me. Not playing jazz, at least. Most people have some sort of musical blind-spot. Heavy metal, atonal, classical, country, jazz, blues.......it's hard to like them all.
I remember hearing Eric Clapton saying that it wasn't the notes that he was playing - but the ones that he wasn't playing, that made him stand out as a guitarist. Slightly esoteric, I agree - but you get a sense of what he means. If he plays all the notes - it leaves nothing for the listener to contribute. Maybe the greats allow us to create our own inner music as an imaginary accompaniment.
Now I'm going for a lie down
r
Chris
My question is: If you say such and such a guitarist is great. What is that he does so well? What is it that SRV is doing? What is it that Tommy Emmanuel is doing? What is it that any of these "greats" are doing that reaches us, specifically?
Any offers....
I think that we can over-analyse this and look for specificity that doesn't exist. Just like with any art form - what makes a connection with one person may completely miss the next person. Much of the connection is created by what someone plays - not how well they play it. I don't like jazz music. I'd find it hard to connect to a jazz guitarist. I did, however, find a connection to Willem's version of Everybody Hurts. Willem would probably agree that he is not as good a guitarist as say, Martin Taylor, but Martin Taylor can't reach me. Not playing jazz, at least. Most people have some sort of musical blind-spot. Heavy metal, atonal, classical, country, jazz, blues.......it's hard to like them all.
I remember hearing Eric Clapton saying that it wasn't the notes that he was playing - but the ones that he wasn't playing, that made him stand out as a guitarist. Slightly esoteric, I agree - but you get a sense of what he means. If he plays all the notes - it leaves nothing for the listener to contribute. Maybe the greats allow us to create our own inner music as an imaginary accompaniment.
Now I'm going for a lie down
r
As has often been said, they certainly are able to embellish technical proficiency with subtlety, power, feeling. Beyond that, I suspect that most of them could not explain what unique qualities make their music great. I think that the indefinable ability to imbue the music with one's own internal vision of it is what takes it into the realm of art. I would submit that for us to be able to precisely identify it would somehow diminish its greatness. 
neverfoundthetime wrote:
I don't know about SRV, but I know a bit about Tommy. I've heard him criticized as someone who just takes other peoples pieces and puts his twist on them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personally, I admit I would rather listen to Mason Williams Classical Gas than Tommy's version, but to WATCH Tommy is such a treat. The love of the music just pours out of the guy and you just know that you are seeing something very special. Of course he can do things with a guitar than are astounding, but for me it's the unashamed joy of playing that makes him special. There's nothing mechanical about Tommy's playing and he is never, ever boring.
My question is: If you say such and such a guitarist is great. What is that he does so well? What is it that SRV is doing? What is it that Tommy Emmanuel is doing? What is it that any of these "greats" are doing that reaches us, specifically?
Any offers....
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neverfoundthetime
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- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm
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Tony, you understood the question. Thanks. That's exactly what I want to know. SO we've covered Tommy Emmanuel. What about all the others?I don't know about SRV, but I know a bit about Tommy. I've heard him criticized as someone who just takes other peoples pieces and puts his twist on them. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and personally, I admit I would rather listen to Mason Williams Classical Gas than Tommy's version, but to WATCH Tommy is such a treat. The love of the music just pours out of the guy and you just know that you are seeing something very special. Of course he can do things with a guitar than are astounding, but for me it's the unashamed joy of playing that makes him special. There's nothing mechanical about Tommy's playing and he is never, ever boring.
I don't think easy to specify what makes a great guitarist into facts, checklists or "what it is they do so well". The words used to describe great guitarists seem to be more emotional type words, like flow, feeling, inspired, soulful, spiritual, it's hard to analyze but you know it when you hear it. It crosses all genres of music and it's magical when it happens.BigBear said: "I think the first difference is true musicians use music as a form of expression, almost like another voice. They express themselves this way as natually as if they were speaking. They "feel" the music and can manipulate it to suit their message".
Then there's another school of thought, Malcolm Gladwell's new book, Outliers: 10,000 hours. In which, he says, is the difference between success and non-success, genius and mediocrity. Anyone from the Beatles to Bill Gates who has succeeded has done so on the back of at least 10,000 hours of practice. Plus, obviously, some intelligence and talent.
SVR, is one of my favorite blues guitarists, here's a couple of quotes about him by some other guitarists.
Eric Clapton said of Stevie Ray Vaughan:
"We played on the same bill on his last two gigs. I knew enough to know that his playing was just going to get better and better. His set had started, he was like two or three songs in, and I suddenly got this flash that I'd experienced before so many times whenever I'd seen him play, which was that he was like a channel. One of the purest channels I've ever seen, where everything he sang and played flowed straight down from heaven. Almost like one of those mystic Sufi guys with one finger pointing up and one finger down. That's what it was like to listen to. And I had to leave just to preserve some kind of sanity or confidence in myself".
Kenny Wayne Shepherd said of Stevie Ray Vaughan:
" I think what I'll really remember is the way he stood, you know? Sweat-drenched, with his eyes closed, grabbing some incredible note. Someone has to be totally absorbed to play like that. To play that intensely sort of wreaks havoc on the body - it's sort of a painful ecstasy. He played the blues, you know? I guess I'll remember that most of all".
In a story I read many years ago, two scientists decided to analyze humor and discover just what funny is. So they did many experiments and one day a few years later, they did it. They actually found out what funny is. But suddenly they realized that by discovering this they had destroyed its ability to make them laugh. Never again would they laugh. Then they fell over dead because they had no reason to live.
Why worry about what it is that makes a great player? Besides we already know the answer. Its what YOU percive that makes them great. To me, I suck. To my granddaughter, I rock! (Love that kid! LOL) To me Gilmour is awesome, to someone else, he's just ok. It will always come down to personal preference.
Why worry about what it is that makes a great player? Besides we already know the answer. Its what YOU percive that makes them great. To me, I suck. To my granddaughter, I rock! (Love that kid! LOL) To me Gilmour is awesome, to someone else, he's just ok. It will always come down to personal preference.