''BLACKBIRD'' MULTIPLE VOICES (melodie)

willem
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:23 am

Question,,, you play and sing a song alone,,and friends want to join in with singing,but the other voice (second)(third)....how Do we find the other voice???????There must be some theory!!



TGJIM
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:07 am

Any particular harmonizing arrangement is custom, including this one, so there's no single choice for voice 2, 3, 4, or 20. But, in principle, these guys are harmonizing around the melody the same way you are harmonizing around the melody when you play a chord. If you play a 'C' chord when the melody note is G, then the C and E notes serve as harmonizing 'voices'. You might add a Bb for a dominant 7th sound -- and so might CSN when they arrange a song like this for singing.

So, absolutely YES, knowing theory helps/informs decisions like this to enable building harmonizing voices around the melody effectively -- but the final choices end up being catered the desired sound at any given point in any given song. For songs we are most likely to listen to, intervals that sound 'harmonious' to the western ear -- e.g., the 1-3-5 voicing of a major chord, or the 1-3b-5 voicing of a minor chord -- are more frequently used than those traditionally considered dissonant -- e.g., the 'Tritone', which is 3 whole steps, or an augmented 4th (the interval between notes in a diminished chord) -- but its all up to the particular arranger/arrangement.

Hope that helps.


willem
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:20 am

fjvdb wrote:
Any particular harmonizing arrangement is custom, including this one, so there's no single choice for voice 2, 3, 4, or 20. But, in principle, these guys are harmonizing around the melody the same way you are harmonizing around the melody when you play a chord. If you play a 'C' chord when the melody note is G, then the C and E notes serve as harmonizing 'voices'. You might add a Bb for a dominant 7th sound -- and so might CSN when they arrange a song like this for singing.

So, absolutely YES, knowing theory helps/informs decisions like this to enable building harmonizing voices around the melody effectively -- but the final choices end up being catered the desired sound at any given point in any given song. For songs we are most likely to listen to, intervals that sound 'harmonious' to the western ear -- e.g., the 1-3-5 voicing of a major chord, or the 1-3b-5 voicing of a minor chord -- are more frequently used than those traditionally considered dissonant -- e.g., the 'Tritone', which is 3 whole steps, or an augmented 4th (the interval between notes in a diminished chord) -- but its all up to the particular arranger/arrangement.

Hope that helps.
Thank you very much,,i understand it more,, i did know it was all in the chord but never thought when we play a C chord (C E G) AND THE G IS THE MELODY NOTE,then we have two left(C AND E) to HARMONIZE..

BUT what it makes it difficult is that you also don't use the same intervals as the melody......any theory on that....


Lavallee
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:03 pm

I'm not sure I fully get your question, but the intervals used in the melody are totally up to the songwriter and what she likes ... though, generally the notes of melody are in a single key. E.g., a song in the key of 'C' likely won't have an F# in it as a melody note -- but, ultimately its up to the songwriter.


willem
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:21 pm

fjvdb wrote:
I'm not sure I fully get your question, but the intervals used in the melody are totally up to the songwriter and what she likes ... though, generally the notes of melody are in a single key. E.g., a song in the key of 'C' likely won't have an F# in it as a melody note -- but, ultimately its up to the songwriter.

Hope i can tell more to understand my question..

we have a melody........that have his intervals (think on the C chord)
the melody starts on G and goes on on the intervals

then we make the second voice..we start on C ...this voice doesn't use
all the same intervals from the melodie??


willem
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:05 pm

willem wrote:
we have a melody........that have his intervals (think on the C chord)
the melody starts on G and goes on on the intervals

then we make the second voice..we start on C ...this voice doesn't use
all the same intervals from the melodie??
Ah, so, are they forming exactly the same intervals to harmonize each melody note? I, unfortunately, don't have the ear to say definitively, but I seriously doubt it (and, clearly they don't, as they're not even harmonizing at all at times).

Each point in the song will have its own voicing of harmonies, appropriate to that point in the song, based on the song and the feeling the songwriters/arrangers want to convey. Same again is true with how guitar instrumental harmonies (e.g., chords) are chosen. Where harmonizing one melody note with a simple major chord at one point works well, the next may be harmonized with a minor, or a 7th to build additional tension for resolution...etc.

I'm sorry, willem, I'm not 100% sure this answers your question... others please chime in if they have clearer insight into the question.


willem
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Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:14 am

Thanks,, i have used for the question the example '''blackbird'' i try to find theoratical how it works with more singing voices in a song or make my own ''second, etc'' voices on a other song,,were the melodie is given....

so i understand now that each voice is diffrent in his intervals (when you look to the melody),,so when we write a second voice on the melody we must look(ear)at how it is in harmony on the melody and the chord,, anybody?? everybody????


willem
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:05 pm

willem wrote:
Thanks,, i have used for the question the example '''blackbird'' i try to find theoratical how it works with more singing voices in a song or make my own ''second, etc'' voices on a other song,,were the melodie is given....

so i understand now that each voice is diffrent in his intervals (when you look to the melody),,so when we write a second voice on the melody we must look(ear)at how it is in harmony on the melody and the chord,, anybody?? everybody????

I do love some more tips on this,,its very intresting i think..


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