Voices in the Sky - how they change over time

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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:45 am

The Who's live appearance at the Super Bowl sparked the following observations:
I was surprised how bad Daltry's voice sounded.
BigBear.
I was surprised by how great Roger Daltry's voice was, considering it was a live performance and the guy's in his 60s.
Dennisg
... and I had the following thoughts, maybe others can add more...

I've been casually tracking the rise and fall of some of the greatest voices over the years and it's clear that most performers have more flexibility, power and range in younger years. After 50 or so, there can really be a drop off in ability. Of course, health, age and personal habits have a huge effect on the voice. Voices are not like great guitars, they don't age well. Paul McCartney and Elton John have stood the test of time well and I've experienced them live in the past decade and have to say they are fantastic live performers. If you listen to Yellow Brick road or Band on the Run you will hear that they used to sing much higher and I sometimes wonder if there was not some technical/mechanical voodoo in play. If you have heard Madonna sing live and compare with her studio tracks, you know what I mean! I think it was Dennis who mentioned that Harry Nielson's voice was devastated by booze and cigs... and I have to agree with McCartney, Without You is one of those all time hammer songs. Gordon Lightfoot's voice has suffered with his health in late years and Dylan's disintegrated fast in the 80's - 90's. The beautiful and haunting voice of Justin Hayward has not waned over the years and I have the feeling that the voice is like a glove to the soul: your spiritual well being and state of soul supplies the underlying strength and structure of what is heard. If I listen back to Sinatra's last performances, it would have been better if we'd been spared that thin slice: I cannot overhear the bitterness and darkness.

Of course, the voice is greatly effected by training and use. When I've had the opportunity to sing with a friend's band over several days, I've noticed that after 2 days I have a much greater range, especially at the top end. I've also noted that I used to be able to sing along with the Beatles, Moody Blues or Dan Fogelberg in the same key but these days have to drop down a half or full step. An example would be Elton's Don't let the Sun go down on Me which is in G and I have to tune the guitar down a half step to get it.

I'm looking forward to hearing from our singing coach Jim, and am really enjoying the voices that are coming out of the closets (so to speak!) here at TG: Gary, Tony, Dennis and Suzie to mention just a few. Love to hear any thoughts and comments on voices in this thread.
Chris

EDIT: Of course, if I'm mentioning The Who and Elton John in the same thread, I have to say, go back and listen to Pinball Wizard... no way Elton can sing that in the same key without dropping an octave these days! ;-)


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:08 am

The BEE GEES were interesting, half way through there career someone suggests singing falsetto and to their own amazement they could do it ... and their trade mark sound was born.


suziko
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:21 am

Having just started to "find my voice" I hope very much it's not going to get worse in the next few years ;)


lmc831
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 am

One of my favorite artist has always been Whitney Houston. Her newest CD was a dissapointment for me. Her voice had certainly changed from her earlier days. If you listen to her older music and her new CD, you can tell the difference. I am thinking her drug abuse with her ex-husband had damaged her vocal chords. She could really sing back in the day.

Lisa


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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:27 am

P.S.

"Sade" finally is coming out with her New Cd this week! I love her music!


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:53 am

Having just started to "find my voice" I hope very much it's not going to get worse in the next few years
Suziko

No worries Suzi... you're still in your prime... miles and miles to go girl! ;-)

lmc831 wrote:
P.S.
"Sade" finally is coming out with her New Cd this week! I love her music!
There you go Lisa, Sade is a beautiful voice with a beautiful face to go with it! Love the timbre of her voice. She's been living quietly in London with her family last few years without us hearing much from her.
Smooth Operator is one of my favourites.... way back in 1984, 26 years ago!


dennisg
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:57 am

It's an interesting topic, Chris. I recently watched an interview with Elton in which he was asked if there's anything about his early recordings that surprises him today when he hears them. Elton, without even having to think about it, said the fact that his voice was so high back in the '70s always comes as a surprise. He referred to himself as sounding like a castratto back then, which I thought was funny.

While Elton and Paul still have good voices, neither has anywhere near the power, flexibility, or range that they used to have, which is completely understandable. In their cases, it's not that they abused their voices -- it's just what naturally happens to the vocal chords as we age. (That's why I'm impressed with what Roger Daltry was able to do at the Superbowl.)

And then there are people like Harry Nilsson and Joni Mitchell, who, at one time, could seemingly do anything with their voices. To this day, I've never heard a singer who could pick notes out of the air the way Harry Nilsson could. To watch his descent into corpulence and growling hoarseness was shocking. And have you heard Joni Mitchell lately? She sounds like she's doing an impression of Krusty the Clown. Why oh why do some people, who are so inconceivably fortunate to have a set of golden pipes, abuse them so much?

You're very lucky, Chris, to still have a very good voice. The fact that you have to tune down only a half or full step is enviable.

I've been playing around with a song by Queen, something that would have been relatively easy for me to sing even two years ago. Now, with age and throat surgery, I simply can't sing it anymore without spending half the song in falsetto.


BigBear
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:01 am

Chris- yours was an excellent observation! I think comparing Dennis' comment and mine is also interesting. I was surprised how much Daltry's voice had deteriorated from the days of Who'S Next, perhaps their highlight album. Dennis maybe expected more deterioration due to age and felt that Daltry's voice was still holding up well. Is the glass half full or half empty?

I don't think you can overly generlize about the human voice and whose degrades most over time but it does seem that the higher pitched voices; the tenors and sopranos hold up better than the baritones or the altos. But there are more exceptions than there are rules on this idea.

I do think there is a strong correlation between those who protect their voices and those who perform too often and too loud and hard. Ian Anerson of Jethro Tull fame is a prime example of a guy who seems to have just worn out his voice. And there is no doubt that Daltry has screamed a few too many times. On the other end are performers like Celine Dion who won't even speak to anyone 24 hours before a concert to protect her voice.

Also, there is no doubt in my mind that smoking and drug use really take a toll on the voice. Maybe smoking helps those raspy blues singers but I don't think it helps most singers at all.

Maybe genetics ultimately plays the biggest role in whether someone's voice survives. And there is no doubt that particularly rock and roll singers are now performing well into their 60's and even 70's. Mick Jagger will still be belting out Honky Tonk Woman in his 90's! lol God, I hope not!!

Cheers! :cheer:


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:09 am

Nice insights on Elton Dennis. I have to say that you are singing really well and I can't hear that throat surgery at all... only you will know the difference. So, more kudos to you for your singing Den!

Joni Mitchel, yeah what a performer! That simple old Big Yellow Taxi is right up there for me.

Kate Bush comes to my mind right now... what a voice that lovely lady had...


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neverfoundthetime
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Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:28 am

Thanks Rick, great comments from you as always, after all you are over 2000 years old now, aren't you? :-)

Mick Jagger has got to be the greatest rock voice of all time. He has his own style and can sing anything and make it his own ... and he's been doing it for, OMG, 47 years! Not even a shade or nuance worse than his best ever even today.

Two of my favourite voices on a song here.... this will remain un-imitated (can I say that?) for ever... (if you want to skip to the real goods go to 2.26 mins)


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