Very interesting, Max. I recently saw the movie The King's Speech which is about the stuttering problem of the king of England (Elizabeth II's father). His speech therapist had him practice by singing the words of his speech. I won't tell you whether or not that method was successful, but it was riveting to watch. By the way, if any of you are looking for a good movie, that's the one. Colin Firth (as the king) and Geoffrey Rush (as his therapist) turn in two spectacular performances, both of which I expect to be nominated for Oscars. I left the theater thinking that this was one of the best movies I've seen in many years, and I thought about it for many days afterward.I think there is also a theory that a different part of human brain processes singing and a different processes speaking. Therefore when you sing it's not your natural accent that goes out. This could also be some why people who stutter can flawlessly sing.
What happened to your funny accent?
Max wrote:
dennisg wrote:
Max
Thanks for the movie tip-I just watched the trailer online, I will definitely put this on my list of must sees. By the way the online site says it's nominated for 7 Golden Globes.Max wrote:Very interesting, Max. I recently saw the movie The King's Speech which is about the stuttering problem of the king of England (Elizabeth II's father). His speech therapist had him practice by singing the words of his speech. I won't tell you whether or not that method was successful, but it was riveting to watch. By the way, if any of you are looking for a good movie, that's the one. Colin Firth (as the king) and Geoffrey Rush (as his therapist) turn in two spectacular performances, both of which I expect to be nominated for Oscars. I left the theater thinking that this was one of the best movies I've seen in many years, and I thought about it for many days afterward.I think there is also a theory that a different part of human brain processes singing and a different processes speaking. Therefore when you sing it's not your natural accent that goes out. This could also be some why people who stutter can flawlessly sing.
Max
Fascinating topic. As for the stuttering. I know that the Country singer Mel Tillis has a horrible stutter when he speaks but not a trace of one when he sings. So, I am totally convinced that the mechanics of singing must help smooth out the sounds and help with the stuttering. Very interesting topic.
Any speech therapists out there?
Any speech therapists out there?
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neverfoundthetime
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Good Morning America!
Thanks for the wake-up call Dennis.... although it’s a day later already but still it’s nice to have a yummy question like this to chew on before my first coffee!
At the moment my thoughts are not ordered on this but a few things float into mind.
Accents are one of my favourite things (Julie Andrews is twittering away in a dark corner of my mind) and Dennis’ question is spot on. What the… is happening when we sing?! You only have to listen to Lisa Stansfield (“Bin around the World”) sing that song and then hear her talk about it to experience the ripping disconnect of song voice, spoken voice. She sings so beautifully and talks so rough with a strong northern accent (somewhere between Manchester and Yorkshire accent, which is not surprising as she grew up in Rochdale which is exactly there). You can’t hear anything of Cheryl Cole’s Jordie Accent in her singing (she’s the pretty judge on the Xfactor) and Jordie is even more difficult to understand than Scouse (Liverpool)! Although, I must say I do hear the Northern sound of all of the Beatles’ voices in their songs (John is the clearest) as I do with Oasis (Manchester) and Robbie Williams (Stoke … which is Midlands but much closer to a Northern than any Southern accent).
Michele’s point about it being physical surely has some truth to it but I’m edging towards imitation being more important. As I lived in many different places as I child, I had to learn the art of imitation to fit in - you couldn’t move to the north of England speaking with any kind of southern accent in the 60’s/70’s without fearing for your life: “are you some posh git or what?!” If I spend an hour in Sheffield nowadays, I instantly revert to a hint of a soft Yorkshire lilt (you can’t do the full blown thing because that would be too phoney – which is an interesting word in itself; is it originally referring to phonetics?): “Now then, ah right lad?” Anyway, I make no conscious decision to do so, it just happens. And it happens when I sing too. If you listen to The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald I sang with Marc, you’ll hear some odd Irish-like accent (“as the waves broke over the railings”) which is just me trying to get the Lightfoot sound into the song, again not consciously. It just happens. I learned German the same way - monkey hear, monkey do!
All the English bands of the 50’s and 60’s were strongly influenced by the American sound of Rock ‘n’ Roll so I’m sure imitation played it’s role in the sound of the Beatles and Stones etc. The big thing I noticed when I started singing was that you had to lose your normal way of pronouncing words simply because Rock ‘n’ Roll is not sung using clear English or correct pronunciation but uses much slang and a much more street-wise vocabulary. There is a certain sound you have to emulate to sound about right but what that is exactly, I can’t say in great detail. Getting it “wrong” sometimes works too. The Eurovision Song Contest was won last year by a German teenager, Lena, singing with an English accent which must come out of her own fantasy, as it is completely unidentifiable but it actually added to the unique feel of the song and became a fad. She has no other song release as far as I know so I think it’s a one shot wonder. And if non Euros don’t know what the Eurovision Song Contest is… be happy in your ignorance!! I think she is imitating an accent that she thinks she has heard but it’s not one I can identify. The point is, she is imitating something!
EDIT: I wrote my post after only reading Tony and Michele so as not to be too influenced. Now I've read the whole thing I have a few further observations.
Here's Jon Culshaw on imitation (he does Tony Blair, Billy Connelly and Ricky Gervais):
Thanks for the wake-up call Dennis.... although it’s a day later already but still it’s nice to have a yummy question like this to chew on before my first coffee!
At the moment my thoughts are not ordered on this but a few things float into mind.
Accents are one of my favourite things (Julie Andrews is twittering away in a dark corner of my mind) and Dennis’ question is spot on. What the… is happening when we sing?! You only have to listen to Lisa Stansfield (“Bin around the World”) sing that song and then hear her talk about it to experience the ripping disconnect of song voice, spoken voice. She sings so beautifully and talks so rough with a strong northern accent (somewhere between Manchester and Yorkshire accent, which is not surprising as she grew up in Rochdale which is exactly there). You can’t hear anything of Cheryl Cole’s Jordie Accent in her singing (she’s the pretty judge on the Xfactor) and Jordie is even more difficult to understand than Scouse (Liverpool)! Although, I must say I do hear the Northern sound of all of the Beatles’ voices in their songs (John is the clearest) as I do with Oasis (Manchester) and Robbie Williams (Stoke … which is Midlands but much closer to a Northern than any Southern accent).
Michele’s point about it being physical surely has some truth to it but I’m edging towards imitation being more important. As I lived in many different places as I child, I had to learn the art of imitation to fit in - you couldn’t move to the north of England speaking with any kind of southern accent in the 60’s/70’s without fearing for your life: “are you some posh git or what?!” If I spend an hour in Sheffield nowadays, I instantly revert to a hint of a soft Yorkshire lilt (you can’t do the full blown thing because that would be too phoney – which is an interesting word in itself; is it originally referring to phonetics?): “Now then, ah right lad?” Anyway, I make no conscious decision to do so, it just happens. And it happens when I sing too. If you listen to The Wreck of The Edmund Fitzgerald I sang with Marc, you’ll hear some odd Irish-like accent (“as the waves broke over the railings”) which is just me trying to get the Lightfoot sound into the song, again not consciously. It just happens. I learned German the same way - monkey hear, monkey do!
All the English bands of the 50’s and 60’s were strongly influenced by the American sound of Rock ‘n’ Roll so I’m sure imitation played it’s role in the sound of the Beatles and Stones etc. The big thing I noticed when I started singing was that you had to lose your normal way of pronouncing words simply because Rock ‘n’ Roll is not sung using clear English or correct pronunciation but uses much slang and a much more street-wise vocabulary. There is a certain sound you have to emulate to sound about right but what that is exactly, I can’t say in great detail. Getting it “wrong” sometimes works too. The Eurovision Song Contest was won last year by a German teenager, Lena, singing with an English accent which must come out of her own fantasy, as it is completely unidentifiable but it actually added to the unique feel of the song and became a fad. She has no other song release as far as I know so I think it’s a one shot wonder. And if non Euros don’t know what the Eurovision Song Contest is… be happy in your ignorance!! I think she is imitating an accent that she thinks she has heard but it’s not one I can identify. The point is, she is imitating something!
EDIT: I wrote my post after only reading Tony and Michele so as not to be too influenced. Now I've read the whole thing I have a few further observations.
I always loved singing and I've noticed that I have a very good ear for accents and identifying where they are from quickly. Add to that that it was a necessary survival skill in my childhood to be able to fit in (lived in 5 different regions). I can imitated well but when I listen to the great comedian imitators (Peter Sellers, Mike Yarwood, Rory Bremner, Alistair McGowan, Jon Culshaw ) that's a completely different level!Here's something that just occurred to me: there's probably a correlation between one's ability to sing well and one's ability to imitate other accents. I've noticed that people who have an ear for music are also very good at speaking foreign languages. Dennis
Here's Jon Culshaw on imitation (he does Tony Blair, Billy Connelly and Ricky Gervais):
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neverfoundthetime
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I'm looking forward to the film The Kings Speech, I'd heard that it's really good.
I'm not sure if we are using different parts of our brain for speech and singing as such but certainly rhythm and tone and phrasing take on a over-riding role in singing and I'm sure the parts of the brain controlling these functions kick in on singing in a bigger way than in speaking. That's an interesting point Max.
Stuart's point about sounding less like ourselves is also interesting. Maybe we are shifting our persona a little. I've heard that my persona comes over differently when I'm speaking German (my brother thought so) and I also find that I sound different not just in terms of the sound but personality too. I wonder what Vanessa, Willem, Anton and other non native English speakers think about that. I'd include Australians here too. Bwuhahaha! Not to mention Scottish-Kiwi split personalities, Chas!!
I'm not sure if we are using different parts of our brain for speech and singing as such but certainly rhythm and tone and phrasing take on a over-riding role in singing and I'm sure the parts of the brain controlling these functions kick in on singing in a bigger way than in speaking. That's an interesting point Max.
Stuart's point about sounding less like ourselves is also interesting. Maybe we are shifting our persona a little. I've heard that my persona comes over differently when I'm speaking German (my brother thought so) and I also find that I sound different not just in terms of the sound but personality too. I wonder what Vanessa, Willem, Anton and other non native English speakers think about that. I'd include Australians here too. Bwuhahaha! Not to mention Scottish-Kiwi split personalities, Chas!!
I'm really enjoying this thread, Dennis! Chris, what a great response to this thread, and i wanted to say I enjoyed both of those clips. You're right, Lena's "English" accent is fascinating!
I, too, agree with Stuart that imitation seems to be the most likely explanation. I know that when I sing a country song (such as something by Lucinda Williams or Iris Dement) I find myself singing with a southern twang that I definitely do not have in my spoken voice.
In a perfect world (my perfect world!) I wish people sang with their native accents. I love hearing people's real accents coming through in their singing. Here's a good example of that: Scottish band Frightened Rabbit
I, too, agree with Stuart that imitation seems to be the most likely explanation. I know that when I sing a country song (such as something by Lucinda Williams or Iris Dement) I find myself singing with a southern twang that I definitely do not have in my spoken voice.
In a perfect world (my perfect world!) I wish people sang with their native accents. I love hearing people's real accents coming through in their singing. Here's a good example of that: Scottish band Frightened Rabbit
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neverfoundthetime
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That's a great song Suzi, how did you find them?!
Here's another example of someone who stayed within his native accent and sounds authentic. This is the Mersey Sound which is the name given to all the bands coming out of Liverpool after the success of the Beatles. The artist were signed up with Brian Epstein or came from the Liverpool area. The Mersey is the river running through Liverpool. hence the Mersey Beat or Mersey Sound.
An just to be fair to our Aussie friends... I love John Williamson's authentic Aussie sound and the Aussie themes he sings about:
And you probably can't be more in-culture than this...
Here's another example of someone who stayed within his native accent and sounds authentic. This is the Mersey Sound which is the name given to all the bands coming out of Liverpool after the success of the Beatles. The artist were signed up with Brian Epstein or came from the Liverpool area. The Mersey is the river running through Liverpool. hence the Mersey Beat or Mersey Sound.
An just to be fair to our Aussie friends... I love John Williamson's authentic Aussie sound and the Aussie themes he sings about:
And you probably can't be more in-culture than this...
Chris-
Frightened Rabbit's album A Winter of Mixed Drinks was on on many critics' "Best Albums of 2010" list. I'm glad you liked that song!
I was going to try to make the argument that we all also loved Olivia Newton-John because of her soft Australian-tinged voice, but after seeing this video, I'm not sure that was the real reason!
Frightened Rabbit's album A Winter of Mixed Drinks was on on many critics' "Best Albums of 2010" list. I'm glad you liked that song!
I was going to try to make the argument that we all also loved Olivia Newton-John because of her soft Australian-tinged voice, but after seeing this video, I'm not sure that was the real reason!
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neverfoundthetime
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Oh yeah Olivia Neutron Bomb. Mmmmmm. Her accent isn't the first thing I noticed about her, that's true 
.
The oddest fact about accents that springs to mind for me is that in my family each one of us had a different accent: Mother Liverpool, father Norfolk, oldest sister Canadian, youngest sister American, oldest brother London, second oldest brother Cambridgeshire. Me ? some have said a slight German accent. Thing is you only noticed this on the phone when you were very far away. Up close, nothing. Anyway, here's a real Norfolk accent for you (my father's was only slight!):
.The oddest fact about accents that springs to mind for me is that in my family each one of us had a different accent: Mother Liverpool, father Norfolk, oldest sister Canadian, youngest sister American, oldest brother London, second oldest brother Cambridgeshire. Me ? some have said a slight German accent. Thing is you only noticed this on the phone when you were very far away. Up close, nothing. Anyway, here's a real Norfolk accent for you (my father's was only slight!):