Changing a songwriters lyrics.

dan5619
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Fri May 13, 2011 1:20 pm

My question to all the songwriters out there! Is it respectful or even appropriate to change a songwriters lyrics to suit their own interpetation. I will give an example, of Joan Biaz changing the words to Robbie Robertson's song "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down". Was this ethical in the songwriters circle. I see changing lyrics as having the potential to change the songwriters thoughts and meaning of the song. It is my opinion, we songwriters, should all be careful when covering others music to keep the origingal lyrics and meaning. I know songwriters themselves will change the words slightly on different occasions and for different reasons. But it is the songwriter themselves making the decision to make the change or changes. Thoughts on the subject?


dennisg
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Fri May 13, 2011 1:27 pm

You don't mention HOW Joan Baez changed the lyrics. If all she did was change the gender to suit whatever gender she wishes to represent herself as, that's fine with me. But if she went further than that, then no, I don't particularly care for it. I happen to be a writer, and if a magazine decided on its own to rewrite some of my work, I'd have a real problem with it. In fact, I've had to deal with that very issue. No one gets to change a writer's work without first getting permission.


willem
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Fri May 13, 2011 1:37 pm

I even decide not changing the gender.. i just try to cover..


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Music Junkie
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Fri May 13, 2011 2:15 pm

I am with Dennis on this. To change gender or something small like a town name or friends name, etc. I think is fine, cause it does make the song fit the singer a bit more. To change much beyond that, then it really becomes a different song altogether. We could probably split hairs on this and I am not saying I am correct, just saying how I view it/ feel about it.......

Interesting question...

J


Chasplaya
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Fri May 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Not an answer to the question really but about 'The Night They drove Old Dixie Down', according to Joan Baez in an interview with The Rolling Stone, Baez said that she initially learned the song by listening to the recording on the Band's album, and had never seen the printed lyrics at the time she recorded it, and thus sang the lyrics as she'd (mis)heard them. In more recent times she sang it as written. I recall we've discussed something similar before about this song in particular.

As for the question are we discussing changing a few lyrics and the song is essentially the same or are we talking entirely new lyrics to the music? I've done the latter quite often. If we are talking the fomer then they should'nt be changed but again in some plays they have been changed to modernise them, is that wrong also?


lueders
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Fri May 13, 2011 3:11 pm

I don't even like the name change cliche' bands often use with cities/places in their songs at concerts. Of course this is done to score points with the dwellers of the city they happen to playing in that night. But am I really supposed to think?: "Wow, they changed it just for us!" Even though last night when they were in Cleveland, they did the same thing. And the night before that in Buffalo it was something else...

As for changing the lyrics of someone else's song...I think that is a MAJOR No-No! I think the delivery style of the song (i.e. the way it is sung) & the arrangement is fair game to be changed. But the words themselves...man, that is sacred! Generally speaking, the musical arrangement is a vehicle to get the lyrics out there. And the words are where it is at. That is what the song is about. This is the most important thing.

Cori


suziko
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Fri May 13, 2011 3:33 pm

I am generally against changing lyrics at all. I don't even like when genders are changed. I did however, have a recent experience where I thought a change might have been better. I was watching a cover version of the 80s hit Don't You Want Me, and the duet was sung by two men. It was a great cover, but the guy who was singing the woman's part sang "I was working as a waitress in a cocktail bar..." and it really jumped out at me and took me out of the song. I thought having two men sing it was an interesting and provocative choice, but I think in this case, I would have changed the line to "as a waiter."

Cori- I totally agree with you about the "insert local city" thing that bands do. It's just so cheesey and clearly manipulative. But I guess as long as people freak out with excitement whenever, for example, KISS says "CHICAGO!! Rock City" then bands will keep doing it.


tovo
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Fri May 13, 2011 3:57 pm

I think this is a great question. Already some very interesting responses. In terms of the gender issue, I recall (perhaps I learned here on TG from a discussion?) when Luther Vandross did a version of 'Killing me Softly' and didn't change the lyric it created quite a stir at the time and led to much discussion regarding his sexual orientation. I thought it represented a very brave and admirable decision, particularly for the time.

So many people on TG have said that they don't listen to lyrics, so I'm surprised that the general sentiment is very much against changing lyrics, but perhaps only those who value lyrics have answered so far?

With all that said, I must say I am also against significantly changing lyrics. I was fascinated by Neil's history of the tune 'Mr Bogangles' which I recently spent a good deal of time on, and his description of how people had over time "messed them up" (the lyrics). I think changing the arrangement is OK, but the lyrics are so integral to the writer's creation that I think it's pretty disrespectful to alter them significantly.


dan5619
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Fri May 13, 2011 6:31 pm

Hello to all who have responded so far!!!

It has been really interesting to read the responses thus far. To add some additional information to my origingal question, Joan Biaz's changes were not for Gender issues. I can see as "Chasplaya" responed, that according to the Rolling Stone, Ms. Biaz may have only heard the song before she played it and thus made mistakes. When I cover someone elses music, I attempt to find out as much as I can about the song and keep the lyrics the same. If I am asked about the meaning behind the song, I can pass on as much as I know. I find it hard to believe that a folk singer would record a cover song without even seeing the real lyrics or knowing anything about the history behind the song. Seems to be disrepectful to the original artist. For those who are interested in seeing the difference between the Joan Biaz version: http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/ ... 9C00236DFD and the Robbie Robertson orginal: http://www.metrolyrics.com/the-night-th ... -band.html

Joan Biaz's original lyrics are still out there for everone to see, thus if a musician does not research the song, they would not know the difference between her lyrics and the lyrics origninal songwriter Robbie Robertson. Those mistakes can take on a life of their own. Especially from a well known singer/songwriter. I believe it is something to think about.

Looking forward to reading more on the subject!

Also if anyone is interested in the meaning behind the song "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down" here is the link for Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_ ... Dixie_Down

The history behind the song will show the lyric differences between Biaz and Robertson did change the historical/songwriters meaning of the song.

Good luck and keep on writing!!! - Dan


dennisg
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Fri May 13, 2011 6:37 pm

dan5619 wrote:
[quote]
Looking forward to reading more on the subject!/quote]

Okay. Here's more on the subject. As a writer, I very much want people to respect the integrity of my work. But I don't get the sense that Joan Baez willfully disregarded a writer's intellectual property. I think she just made an honest mistake. She thought she knew the lyrics, but apparently she didn't. There are a lot of people out there in the world doing sleazy things; I don't think Joan Baez is one of them.


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