Help me decide- should I go over to the dark side??

[dennisg]

reiver wrote:

I would guess that it's the spelling of 'compleat' - as in Compleat Rhythm Guitarist. In this form it means skilled or accomplished rather than entire or total.

I've always just assumed that "compleat" was a Britishism, like "colour" and "aluminium." Part of the confusion for me stems from the documentary called "The Compleat Beatles" that was released in the '80s. It would seem, in this context, they mean "entire or total" rather than "skilled or accomplished."

[suziko]

Below is an article I found on Randomhouse.com concerning the etymology of the word "compleat:"

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.p ... e=19970303

The original, and usual, sense of complete is 'having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; entire; whole'. This sense is derived from Latin completus, a participle of complere 'to fill up; fulfill', which is equivalent to com- (as in combine, compare) and plere 'to fill'.

Another sense of complete is 'highly skilled and accomplished in all aspects; expert'. This sense became archaic, but was revived in imitation of Izaac Walton's book The Compleat Angler (1653), a treatise on fishing. The title means 'the skilled angler', not 'a guide to fishing that has every possible detail', as it is often incorrectly interpreted today. When this sense of complete was revived, it was first used in titles equivalent to Walton's in both spelling and form: The Compleat Batchelor (1900), Come and Get It! The Compleat Outdoor Chef (1942), The Compleat Imbiber (1953), and others. It then began to be used in running text, where it maintained the archaic spelling compleat and the meaning 'accomplished; expert'.

When you look up compleat in dictionaries, they usually give a definition such as 'accomplished; expert' and an etymology noting that it's an archaic spelling of complete alluding to Walton's Compleat Angler. But my impression is that many, if not most, people think it's simply an archaic spelling of complete (in the sense 'whole; entire'), and use it accordingly. People don't understand what the word means in Walton's title.

[neverfoundthetime]

Thanks Suzie, our resident linguist clears up the mystery. I shall sleep more peacefully.

[suziko]

Well, you knew I couldn't resist throwing in my two-cents (or should I say tuppence?) on this subject. Though all I did was copy and paste, which more called on my finger-skills than my language-skills.

[neverfoundthetime]

It's knowing where to look Suzie.... research skills are king in today's world!

[suziko]

dennisg wrote:

reiver wrote:

I would guess that it's the spelling of 'compleat' - as in Compleat Rhythm Guitarist. In this form it means skilled or accomplished rather than entire or total.

I've always just assumed that "compleat" was a Britishism, like "colour" and "aluminium." Part of the confusion for me stems from the documentary called "The Compleat Beatles" that was released in the '80s. It would seem, in this context, they mean "entire or total" rather than "skilled or accomplished."

Bingo!

Dennis, you have found the second part of the puzzle. There is still one more, somewhat related to your discovery.

Neil

[hasben]

Well, how about "totally skilled and completely accomplished" re: guitarist?
Fred

[reiver]

dennisg wrote:

reiver wrote:

I would guess that it's the spelling of 'compleat' - as in Compleat Rhythm Guitarist. In this form it means skilled or accomplished rather than entire or total.

I've always just assumed that "compleat" was a Britishism, like "colour" and "aluminium." Part of the confusion for me stems from the documentary called "The Compleat Beatles" that was released in the '80s. It would seem, in this context, they mean "entire or total" rather than "skilled or accomplished."

Dennis

I would guess that the use of the spelling 'compleat' in the title of the film is a reference to the spelling of their name, Beatles.

r

[reiver]

suziko wrote:

Below is an article I found on Randomhouse.com concerning the etymology of the word "compleat:"

http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.p ... e=19970303

The original, and usual, sense of complete is 'having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; entire; whole'. This sense is derived from Latin completus, a participle of complere 'to fill up; fulfill', which is equivalent to com- (as in combine, compare) and plere 'to fill'.

Another sense of complete is 'highly skilled and accomplished in all aspects; expert'. This sense became archaic, but was revived in imitation of Izaac Walton's book The Compleat Angler (1653), a treatise on fishing. The title means 'the skilled angler', not 'a guide to fishing that has every possible detail', as it is often incorrectly interpreted today. When this sense of complete was revived, it was first used in titles equivalent to Walton's in both spelling and form: The Compleat Batchelor (1900), Come and Get It! The Compleat Outdoor Chef (1942), The Compleat Imbiber (1953), and others. It then began to be used in running text, where it maintained the archaic spelling compleat and the meaning 'accomplished; expert'.

When you look up compleat in dictionaries, they usually give a definition such as 'accomplished; expert' and an etymology noting that it's an archaic spelling of complete alluding to Walton's Compleat Angler. But my impression is that many, if not most, people think it's simply an archaic spelling of complete (in the sense 'whole; entire'), and use it accordingly. People don't understand what the word means in Walton's title.

Nice research Suze. So....... do you agree that it is ok to use the spelling in "The Compleat Rhythm Guitarist", but incorrect in "Compleat Open Chords"? Unless it's just being used as a continuation of the spelling pun, which is ok too.

r

[dennisg]

reiver wrote:

I would guess that the use of the spelling 'compleat' in the title of the film is a reference to the spelling of their name, Beatles.

Oddly, that never occurred to me. But you're probably right.