YEAH Baby!

eagle670
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:13 am

Double YIKES!


unclewalt
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:47 am

I'm not interested in participating much further in this increasingly bizarre and illogic-riddled argument. But I do want to point back to my explicit statement that I'm not advocating drug use - I'm only advocating the avoidance of simplistic thinking. For every idiot who killed himself or herself with heroin or prescription drugs, there are thousands of people who smoked pot or did acid, and even harder drugs, often for years or decades (which I *really* don't advocate) without dying, and really, in many cases, without experiencing much other negative fallout.

Put it this way: I could provide a list of all the 60s and 70s musicians who used drugs and *didn't* OD that would be much, much longer than the above list of famous dead drug washouts. My list would comprise people who are mostly still alive, and still working. Most of them, I would bet, don't use drugs of any kind any more, or do so only sometimes, and then carefully. I could also provide a list of people who died from alcohol abuse, car accidents, shootings, diseases and other causes that would also be a lot longer. Being alive carries dangers with it. One must live wisely in order to avoid those dangers. Not injecting heroin is one way to do that. So is not getting drunk and driving a car. And yet it's *still* dangerous.

It's increasingly apparent (and I think some actual studies have borne this out) that people who go through a period of drug experimentation tend to be the more creative, imaginative, curious types. That's just how it is. They aren't evil or immoral, though depending on how they go about it, they might be stupid or self-destructive.

And that's all I have to say about the wisdom, or lack thereof, contained in facile, judgmental moral pronouncements. Even when they're found in clips from "21 Jump Street."


wiley
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:02 am

Honestly, I'm a bit confused here.

Yikes? Double Yikes??

Walt, your disclaimer about advocating (or not advocating) drug abuse is nothing more than BS. Why? You go on to explain and reason how anything past Rubber Soul would have never been possible if not for Pot and/or LSD? Really? Where is the proof you seem to have about this?

As for 'exploring' ones mind and spirit? Give me a break! One 'needs' some chemical interaction for this to happen? One cannot 'explore' oneself without some outboard influence?

There are two names (of the many left off my list) I have personal accounts of, situations that would be changed if not for the use/abuse of certain 'drugs'.

I lost a 23 year old nephew a few years back, he was killed by a 19 year old. That 19 year old is the 'real' tragedy as he was raised by parents who showed him a lifestyle of drug and alcohol abuse. I say abuse, Mom was an ex-con, serving time in the Fed for possession/intent/delivery of a controlled substance. Dad, 7 DUIs in one state alone.

As the DPS arrived on scene, the 19 year old lay passed out, leaning against the wheel of the truck he had driven through a Stop sign. No skid marks, no remorse, excluding his own pity, in the 10 months of court appearances. So yea, he had a lifestyle. One that 'caused' the death of my nephew.

He's now paying for that lifestyle, a lifestyle he 'really' didn't choose himself. He is in the second year of the eight he will serve for manslaughter. He's also taken up an assault charge while 'inside'.

A few months ago, I lost a niece. She leaves behind three children. She died of 'heart failure' due to a combination of prescribed medications and an over-the-counter 'cold/flu' drug. So many ways to die, so many have done the same.

I'm not backing Andy's beliefs here (in form), what and how I believe is of my own choosing, as are your own. I will stand up and defend his right to believe in his choosing, the same as I will your own, within reason.

I choose to cause 'no harm' in my beliefs, or at best, try not to. It's been my experience that drug abuse, or the use of chemicals/herbs in particular form, does more harm than can ever be overcome by the good it may do. As for my own experiences, I have never seen drug abuse do anything other than harm. Not only to those choosing to do so, but to those who surround the abuser. Be that drug alcohol, tobacco, crack cocaine, LSD, cocaine, heroin, toke, or even Valium.

So, I find it offensive that your 'belief' that particular folk 'gained' some magical, mystical happening due solely by the use of said chemicals/herbs is somehow defensible. It is, at best, a naive notion that anyone wouldn't be what they are without experiencing the things they alone have experienced.

In the same breath, how does one know that if one didn't do XX that result XX would have never taken place? How, seemingly without a doubt, can you say "Hey Jude" would have never come to light if John Lennon wouldn't have smoked a joint somewhere along the line?


TGMatt
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:25 am

Guys...

No kidding...You are all off topic...starting to critisise each other and destroying the spririt of the site by doing so,..

Need I remind you all...No religion, politics, or personal attacks...we have all learned our lesson that this does not suit this site..

So in the interests of keeping us all on track I am locking the thread...you are welcome to take this conversation into your private messaging if you so desire ..

Thx


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