One year later: how do you feel about the busking threads?

[reiver]

coomba wrote:

Hi Stuart
I am not referring to direct attacks on me , I am talking about the forum in general. Ive been here for a while now and I don't participate as much as most but I do read the forum and it seems obvious to me that all is well here as long as you agree with a everyone else. An opinion is asked for and answered. An opinion is just that, a personal thought it can't be wrong, you may not agree with it, That fine but its not wrong. I just don't see why it must be justified.
Just read through this thread and I think its clear. It is to me anyway.

This is only my opinion agree or disagree I don't mind either way.

Cheers
Scott

Hi Scott

I don't want to bog down the thread in a back and forth between the two of us - but I'd like to respond on a couple of points in particular.

Firstly, opinions can absolutely be wrong. If I were to write "In my opinion, Scotland is bigger than Australia" - then that is wrong. It's a factual misrepresentation and is measurably incorrect. Now, you may say that I am entitled to hold that opinion but I'd say that others would be entitled to point out my error.

Secondly, you say that you don't see why an opinion must be justified and that may be true. However, if someone CHOOSES to give justification, then that justification can be challenged. That's how debate is generated, as witnessed here over the past couple of days.

Stuart

[BigBear]

buddy wrote:

I would like to address something that Bear posted in his response to Ness, Bear wrote

"Nesh- I didn't state them as facts and they are only my opinion but I get ALOT of email from friends of mine on this site and the excessive postings are an issue to many members. I am far from alone in my concern for this issue."

If their are these types of e-mails going around, I would encourage those sending them to Bear to instead send them to the people they have concerns about. How else are others supposed to know about you concerns if you express them to Bear instead of directly to those you are frustrated with. Otherwise, these back door e-mails just turn into gossip and get people whipped up about issues. If someone comes to me with and issue about another forum member, I tell them they should contact that member directly and express their concerns in a constructive manner, this is a much more mature way to address issues and is much healthier for all involved.

So let the e-mailsl begin, LOL.

Bud

Buddy makes a good point but it will never happen. The fear of offending anyone on this site is so great that the only practical solution is to bitch with your friends behind the scenes (not very useful) or simply back away from the site. Remember the "good old days" when someone would post a video and other members would jump in with helpful suggestions? It doesn't happen much anymore because there is too much sensitivity and the occasional hurt feelings that have occurred just aren't worth the energy. So the comments end up about 98% "Great job!!" For me, I don't need a bunch of fellow guitarists telling me how great I am. Especially when I know I'm not. I really appreciate their support and try to give it back whenever I can. But I really want to know how to get better or what I'm doing wrong. But any criticism is very dangerous, especially with an international site. That's why I don't post much.

Someone posted a thread a little while back asked "where did everybody go...?" I know where a lot of people went. They backed away from the forum and just focused on their music. I'm not making this up and it's not like I have some magic email that people send their complaints to. But Dennis asked a very good question which hits a nerve with some members. Obviously not all because the support for the busking thread remains strong.

Nothing stays the same on this or any other site. Features are added, so are people. Nothing is perfect. What was cool at first may not be now. I still like the busking threads although I don't post much personally. And like I said before this is certainly not worth anyone getting testy about. It just isn't worth it. If you don't like all the videos don't watch them. It's still all good!!

[BigBear]

coomba wrote:

Ok so I'm confused (not difficult)

The question asked was how do YOU FEEL about the busking threads ? Why is it that if your answer to a very specific question is not the happy answer that a lot here seem to won't There is a string of responses telling you that you are wrong. In the nicest possible way.
This is exactly why I don't usually get involved with the forum very often. God help anyone who crosses the purple circle.
I don't know why anyone asks for an opinion its pointless.

Cheers Scott

PS Please don't ask about singing!

Thank you Scott and very well said. I was trying to offer an opinion that I knew would not be consistent with the main stream and once again the response has been somewhat less than friendly. If offering an opinion, "as fact" or not, becomes so divisive then we as a group are no longer able to even have a debate, of any kind, on any subject. Then God help us all.

At the end of the day are someone's feelings about "busking" really that important? No one was advocating or voting to take down the busking thread. It's just one feature of this site among many. Just a very simple opinion. Scary.

[coomba]

Hi Stuart

Excellent response you managed to prove me wrong.

And right at the same time , If someone puts up an unpopular response in the forum this is exactly what happens.

I won't be saying anything more about this as it really doesn't matter, but feel free to pick it to bits if you like.

I'll keep my thoughts to myself from now on.

Cheers
Scott.

[michelew]

How do I feel about the busking threads? I enjoy them. I find them inspirational. I find them entertaining. I find they motivate me to work on songs. I find them educational; I've learn a lot by watching our many skilled members and I've expanded my knowledge of bands and songs. I find them fun. I find they make me come back to the forum to see the new offerings that our creative community has put up. Far from being divisive, I find that the busking threads have created stronger bonds and a sense of comradary through the challenges that we've set for each other. I feel that we lost a sense of fun and connection when the walls disappeared, for me the busking threads help to return some of that.

I remember when Chris first described the busking concept and issued the Beatles challenge. I remember being invited to post a Beatles song and i remember feeling excited and very nervous about the possibility. That challenge gave me an opportunity to finish learning "Yesterday" and to post it in response. Without the challenge I doubt I would have gotten it to that point. I remember seeing the pure joy for music and playing that some members especially have and just how contagious it was. I have to admit I've really enjoyed issuing challenges to others as well and been amazed, inspired and motivated by the responses to those challenges; to the see what's possible. I like seeing people post who might not otherwise have posted if the busking threads didn't exist.

I like the informality of the busking threads too. I like how flexible it is. I used to feel that my videos needed to be as good as I could get the before posting in the review challenge. The busking threads haveslso allowed me to consolidate what I have learned form Target lessons and apply them to non-target songs.

I don't get why the busking threads need to be filtered into their own forum. I find it easy to scan the thread titles and decide what I want to open. I don't read all threads. I don't watch all videos. I just don't have the time and not everything grabs my attention.

I get that the busking threads might not be of everyone. That's cool. If you're not crazy about how the forum is shaping up, my suggestion to you is create the sorts of threads and discussions you do want to see. Chances are you will encourage other's to post similar material and there will be more for you to enjoy.

I've posted some pretty silly threads at times, a prime example being one about the death of my favourite pick and my search for a new favourite. It was a deliberate attempt at being ridiculous as well as a way of comparing notes for me. I'm sure some members read that and thought "oh my God she's wacko!", which of course I'm not denying. I'm rambling, but my point is if you don't like what the forum is now make some contributions and participate in constructive ways so that it becomes a forum that is more like the one that will keep you returning.

I like the busking threads. They are one of the features of TG that keep me playing and bring more fun into my learning. That's priceless for me.

Create the forum you want to participate in, enjoy the bits you like, leave the rest.

Rave over.

Shel

[tovo]

It's a great question.

I've backed away from the forum. Checking in tonight for the first time in maybe a week. The forum used to be my constant companion. it was open ALL the time and often was the cause of me missing deadlines at work! Lucky I didn't get fired. I guess there's still time.

I don't have a problem with people posting busking tunes. I had a problem with ME posting busking tunes. I'm not good enough for that and I realized it. I now spend my time on absorbing Neil's lessons and practicing. Putting the work into being better. Now because my focus is on my music not on my next video.

There are some GREAT musicians on this site who are quite inspirational. I still check out their work but I have run out of ways to say how damn good they are. I know I should say it anyway because it costs nothing.

I have my own expectations for this site and they often clash with the perception of others. I have expressed opinions privately that I don't express on the forum. Why? Because I really have no further desire to offend. The restraint that people show is what stops this site being a free-for-all of offensive, hurtful and spiteful vitriol. That is a great strength. Respect is a good thing. Of course one could argue that all opinions are better expressed in public than in private but I would disagree. On the flip side, perhaps the desire to avoid offense occasionally results in a bit of "group-think". Perhaps. What I find is that when I feel REALLY strongly about something, then I'm better off leaving it. Those conversations are better conducted face to face with people. An inability to express myself well on a forum is a failing of mine. Others have better success.

So....busking? All good.

[neverfoundthetime]

This has been an excellent thread.

People have been able to air their views and I see no bleating of sheep with everyone conforming and afraid to say what they think but people saying what they feel. Points have been argued, cases stated, explained, defended and no offending personal remarks have been made. That's what a healthy discussion culture looks like. There is peer pressure here: to not be offensive; to be respectful; to be careful with people's feelings; to maybe hold back on something that could be too emotional. That's all good. The opposite can be seen all over the web and YT is a good (bad) example of that.

So Scott, I hope you don't hold back on your comments and thoughts, you can be as contrary as you like, just expect and allow others to answer you and keep in mind, no harm is intended. If someone does come out with something that's harmful or insulting, the rest of the folks here will jump on that for sure... and there is always PM for sorting out grievances.

The TG forum is a great place to voice your feelings, its supportive but you can argue your point freely. When people remember that the issue at hand is the ball in play and to refrain from kicking at the opponents shins but boot the ball as hard as they like, there is no problem. Offence is taken when people think that they are the ball (identify themselves too strongly with the issue so that the boundary of where self begins and ends, the ego, becomes unclear) or think that the opponent is the ball.

Rick, the feedback on a posted video should be 95% positive as egos are fragile and feedback can be difficult to take if someone finds it difficult to sort out the negative from the well intended. Feedback should be like a shit sandwich, the thickness of the bread is really important! If you want to know something, you can always ask: hey does this sound ok or am I getting it wrong? People will know then how to direct the feedback. But not posting is a bummer. I'd love to hear and see some more from you but you don't come out to play. Life is short and full of pain, here's a chance to sing in the sunlight with others who'll clap and join in. Why deny yourself and us that pleasure?

Shel, you really get it. I'd echo all you said but especially,
"I like the informality of the busking threads too. I like how flexible it is. I used to feel that my videos needed to be as good as I could get the before posting in the review challenge."
That's exactly why I post in the busking threads, I can be free of the pressure of being reviewed but still get reviewed by my peers. I love to sit in a circle and pass the guitar... but I really don't like facing an audience as it can make me too nervous to remember things properly, I have to trick myself to get comfortable with an audience. And the only audience I have 364 days of the year (on average) is TG.

Tony, get back here man! Seriously, this place is more fun and more interesting with you. You've mentioned all the issues you've dealt with here on the forum and you should know we all have those issues to some extent, its the dealing with them part that makes us grow and you are one dude that has chosen a path of growth including all the bumps and knocks. How can anyone not have respect for that? Don't deprive yourself of that growth... and us of the fun and companionship.

What can I say folks, its only when you step up to the plate that you can hit a home run. For me TG and the forum, especially the busking threads is what that's all about.

[buddy]

Bear said, "Buddy makes a good point but it will never happen. The fear of offending anyone on this site is so great that the only practical solution is to bitch with your friends behind the scenes (not very useful) or simply back away from the site."

Thanks Rick, but it sure makes me sad that people let their fears stop them from saying what they really feel, how else do we grow as people if we can't put our thoughts out their and have them tested with feedback from others. If withdrawal is the only answer over varied opinions then we might as well go crawl in a cave and implode in our self pity and loneliness. My opinion is that we should never let our fears make our decisions for us because fear is a cruel and deceitful master.

I would also say that "bitching with your friends" is no solution at all, it only leads to like minded offended people getting more offended rather than building bridges to those they are offended by.

Not trying to be preachy here, but I have a real passion about these types of things.

Bud

[sws626]

I've also backed away from the Forum over the past several months. Not because of the busking threads or because of anything in particular had changed about the site, but more to do with changes in the ways I wanted to learn and other demands on my time. I think the busking threads are fine, but I don't really look at them too often. I will look at the uploads from people looking for feedback on what they are trying to learn and I do wish there were more posts of unfinished work in progress. Somehow, I identify with that effort more and am more inclined to post something like that myself to this audience. I do like the idea of there being a space where people just post what they like to play. But, frankly, YouTube is easier to search and has a wider variety if I'm looking for interesting ideas about a specific song. That's not a criticism of anyone who contributes, just a recognition of the small size of this community -- which is also a good thing.

-Stuart

[frybaby]

How about a forum category called "Performances", and if busking was still a need ed, redefine the criteria for busking and have the moderator remove or relocate an video not meeting the requirements for busking.

Down side it would be another category added to a list already list way to long for catagories. IMO.
Click to the Categories tab and the list seem to go on forever

Some categories could be removed, a quick review of the frequency and last post could give an idea of which categories rarely use and probably not that necessary or useful.

If not removed some categories could definitely be consolidated.
For example
General Acoustic Guitar Discussion –
Other Stringed Instruments –
Electrified instruments-
I think too that a specific tab/area for all the song packages instead of having them showcased all over the page would clean up and streamline the look of the site.

With all due respect.

Frybaby
P.S.
Regarding Big Bears comment about folks chiming in with"Great Job" videos, I remember a comment made to students in an art class I was taking. He said do not ask others to make commens about you art piece. Most are not qualified to give the kind of critique needed to truly benefit or create a desire to work harder to improve.
PSS. Big Bear.... get the NECK UP.