3rds, 4ths, 5ths, & so on

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daryl
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:22 pm

thereshopeyet wrote:
Aren't the "perfect 12th" and "perfect 5th" reversed in the link?


sbutler
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:39 pm

I went back and reviewed the lessons again today, and am now lost more than ever.

Still confused in Columbia Mo.


thereshopeyet
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Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:35 pm

Daryl Wrote:
Aren't the "perfect 12th" and "perfect 5th" reversed in the link?
Yep Daryl, I spotted that too but posted anyway as I knew it must be a typo !

;)


TGNesh
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:46 am

Please Scott, tell me, at which point do you lose it?

sbutler wrote:
I went back and reviewed the lessons again today, and am now lost more than ever.

Still confused in Columbia Mo.


sbutler
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:09 am

Vanessa, in my example on Lagrima, E & G# are separated by an Octave and then some. If you start E and run thru the scale, you'll have 3 half steps mixed in with all the whole steps, before you get to G# I think the thing that confuses me is, how do you count intervals with un-even numbers of whole steps and half steps? Is each step counted as one depending on where it is in the scale?

Scott


TGNesh
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:28 am

In short Scott, you count the letters, no matter if they're # or b (a letter of some sort as Neil puts it). From E to E would be 8, further to F would be 9, to G (in this case it's #) would be 10.

There is also the thing, that a scale has degrees right? Up to an octave. So yes the fourth in a E major-scale is of course also a fourth as in interval-wise. Neil wants you to know that, but also what interval you're playing when being on any note. The note you're on is 1, from there to another (or together with, harmonic-wise) is an interval, no matter which degree in the scale it is.

I think you haven't picked the right song to get this all worked out in your head. Maybe you could look a the melody (ignore the bassnotes) and see if you can figure out the intervals, going from one note to the next.

Does this make sense?

sbutler wrote:
Vanessa, in my example on Lagrima, E & G# are separated by an Octave and then some. If you start E and run thru the scale, you'll have 3 half steps mixed in with all the whole steps, before you get to G# I think the thing that confuses me is, how do you count intervals with un-even numbers of whole steps and half steps? Is each step counted as one depending on where it is in the scale?

Scott


sbutler
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:46 am

TGVanessa wrote:
In short Scott, you count the letters, no matter if they're # or b (a letter of some sort as Neil puts it). From E to E would be 8, further to F would be 9, to G (in this case it's #) would be 10.

There is also the thing, that a scale has degrees right? Up to an octave. So yes the fourth in a E major-scale is of course also a fourth as in interval-wise. Neil wants you to know that, but also what interval you're playing when being on any note. The note you're on is 1, from there to another (or together with, harmonic-wise) is an interval, no matter which degree in the scale it is.

I think you haven't picked the right song to get this all worked out in your head. Maybe you could look a the melody (ignore the bassnotes) and see if you can figure out the intervals, going from one note to the next.

Does this make sense?

sbutler wrote:
Vanessa, in my example on Lagrima, E & G# are separated by an Octave and then some. If you start E and run thru the scale, you'll have 3 half steps mixed in with all the whole steps, before you get to G# I think the thing that confuses me is, how do you count intervals with un-even numbers of whole steps and half steps? Is each step counted as one depending on where it is in the scale?

Scott
Vanessa, counting Letters seems simple enough, then Neil started in on Major and Minor, so my mind went to counting 3#'s and b's. The first pinch in my example puts your pinky on G#. Since I understood an interval to be the "DISTANCE" between notes, G# is a 1/2 step in distance from G. I guess I missed a rule somewhere.


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TGNeil
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:56 am

Hi Gang,

A good way to look at intervals is remove any octaves and just confine it to a one octave scale, sort of like reducing fractions. Forget about anything over an octave, then check to see if the upper note is in the scale of the lower one. If it is, it's major or perfect depending on the number. Lagrima opens up with parallel thirds, some major, some minor.

Hopefully you have been looking at the recent segments of Guitar Geography.

Keep on digging!

Neil


sbutler
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:21 am

TGNeil wrote:
Hi Gang,

A good way to look at intervals is remove any octaves and just confine it to a one octave scale, sort of like reducing fractions. Forget about anything over an octave, then check to see if the upper note is in the scale of the lower one. If it is, it's major or perfect depending on the number. Lagrima opens up with parallel thirds, some major, some minor.

Hopefully you have been looking at the recent segments of Guitar Geography.

Keep on digging!

Neil
So is it accurate to start with the E scale in Lagrima? I see four sharps in the key signature. So your saying E- F#-G#. I see a third there. Next is the F#-G#-A. I can see a third there. Then G#-A-B. I can see a third there. Dang octaves got in the way.

So The first set of thirds looks to me like it would be a Major Third. The second set looks like it would be a minor, because its only a half step from G# to A. The last set is one that confuses me as the half step is between the first two notes. Maybe that doesn't matter. If not, then it would be a minor as well. ?????

Scott


TGNesh
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Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:09 pm

Yes Scott, from E to G# is a major third (4 half steps), from F# to A a minor third (3 half steps), from G# to B, also a minor third (3 half steps).

If you're going from one letter to the next it's a second, if you're skipping a letter it's a third. From there you can figure out whether it's major or minor, depending on the actual steps.

Edit Don't forget, the latter ain't the case when it's a fourth, a fifth or an octave, hence the 'perfect' fourth/fifth/octave.


sbutler wrote:
TGNeil wrote:
Hi Gang,

A good way to look at intervals is remove any octaves and just confine it to a one octave scale, sort of like reducing fractions. Forget about anything over an octave, then check to see if the upper note is in the scale of the lower one. If it is, it's major or perfect depending on the number. Lagrima opens up with parallel thirds, some major, some minor.

Hopefully you have been looking at the recent segments of Guitar Geography.

Keep on digging!

Neil
So is it accurate to start with the E scale in Lagrima? I see four sharps in the key signature. So your saying E- F#-G#. I see a third there. Next is the F#-G#-A. I can see a third there. Then G#-A-B. I can see a third there. Dang octaves got in the way.

So The first set of thirds looks to me like it would be a Major Third. The second set looks like it would be a minor, because its only a half step from G# to A. The last set is one that confuses me as the half step is between the first two notes. Maybe that doesn't matter. If not, then it would be a minor as well. ?????

Scott


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