Joining the TG target program about a year ago is about the best thing I've done for my guitar playing. However a couple of my guitar playing frustrations persist:
1) Is simply remembering a chord sequence, song, picking pattern, whatever, so that I can play through. This then I guess contributes to:
2) Making my playing flow, getting it fluid. Eliminating the stop start type of playing. In many ways your intro to the target program highlighted my problem i.e can play bits, but struggle to get all the way through etc.
I know part of the problem may be always wanting to look at new stuff before nailing what I'm trying to play now, or simply polishing my technique. However I was wondering if you have any tips or exercises that would help both of these issues.
Cheers
Martin
Frustration and practice
Hi Martin, welcome to the forum from Montreal Canada. I sure can relate to your challenge as it takes me a long time to learn a song. I find nothing wrong into looking at many songs at the same time (there are 12 songs that I am trying to learn right now plus all the other ones that I am keeping up to date).
I would not be able to do that without the Guitar Pro software which helps as I can focus on the section that I am learning by playing that section only. I alternate between Neil's lessons the Guitar Pro as Neil will show the right way but GP helps me to memorize because you can hear the song and you see a line highlighting the notes on the staff (also showing the tabs)as they are played. I do it this way as I get bored to focus on a song or two.
Marc
I would not be able to do that without the Guitar Pro software which helps as I can focus on the section that I am learning by playing that section only. I alternate between Neil's lessons the Guitar Pro as Neil will show the right way but GP helps me to memorize because you can hear the song and you see a line highlighting the notes on the staff (also showing the tabs)as they are played. I do it this way as I get bored to focus on a song or two.
Marc
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neverfoundthetime
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:14 pm
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Welcome to the forum Martin. No point hiding in the woodwork any longer since you've been here quite some time. I may as well be the first to mention practice as there is an army of TG troopers about to drop in and make the same comment. I guess a song isn't down well enough until it flows and the chord sequence sits. For me, all that has to be on automatic to be able to perform the song well. So just add another layer of practice with the aim of getting through with no hitches... and you are there.
Chris
Chris
Hey Martin!
A very overdue welcome to another Founding Member! Where have you been hiding? lol! Glad you finally popped up but we still would like to have you introduce yourself so we can get to know you better!
Learning songs. My lifelong struggle. I think some people, like Neil, have the gift. But like he said yesterday, he can remember songs because he understands the theory and structure of the song. Most of us don't have that depth of understanding.
Obviously, there is no substitute for practice, practice and more practice but here are a couple of ideas that have helped me remember songs a little better:
1. Quit staring at the tab!!!! You know the old joke about "How do you get a guitarist to stop playing?" "You put sheet music in front of them!" This is the opposite. "How do you get a guitarist to remember songs?" "Take the sheet music away from them!"
I know I become transfixed on watching the sheet music. But how can you ever remember anything if there is a "cheat sheet" right in front of you? Cheat sheets are fine, for awhile, for the lyrics but I think we should get rid of them for the music as soon as possible. If you can't watch the chart you have to "feel" the music and anticipate the correct chord or notes.
2. Beef up your theory. All guitarists, at every skill level, need a commensurate amount of theory. If you know what key you are in you can really reduce the number of possible chords you could/should play and even perhaps what sequence they are in. For example, if you're playing a song in the key of G, you know there is no F chord. Or the key of A has no C chord. But be careful because many artists pull chords or notes from other keys to get a particular sound.
3. Learn the sequence of chords in a key. For example in the key of C, the chords are C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim. In most folk and rock music the I-IV-V (C-F-G) are a very common chord progressions. If you know this, it will really cut down on guessing what chord might be next. You know not to play an A because Am is the usual chord in that key. This subject gets complex pretty quickly but learning the basics is pretty helpful!
Fluidity. The biggest help I've ever learned, and I learned it from Neil, is using the open stroke before a chord change. I may have been doing it but I wasn't aware of it. It is so common in music I didn't even realize it was being done. This means taking all your fingers off the strings on the very last beat before a chord change. This allows you to get into proper position ON THE BEAT!
This is so powerful and simple it's mind boggling! Watch newer players on their videos and you will see them trying to change chords exactly on time and their playing will always be late and always be choppy. It can't be helped because most music doesn't give you enough time to make the chord changes, at least until you become really proficient.
One last thought about fluidity, again from Yoda aka Neil, is with difficult or complex fingerings, fret them in the order you will play them. Don't try to quickly slam into the next chord but rather fret them as you need the note. My dear friend Michele has become masterful at this and her playing has skyrocketed (Michele, sorry to use you as an example but you are so good at this!). This pertains more to fingerstyle playing than strumming.
Martin, sorry for the long response but I think all of us suffer from both of these issues you brought up to some degree. These aren't problems that are there one day and you fix them the next. They are incremental and will just take time. especially, getting rid of the sheet music.
Oh, did I mention practice? LOL! :silly:
Good luck and great to finally see you on the forum!!
Cheers!! :cheer:
A very overdue welcome to another Founding Member! Where have you been hiding? lol! Glad you finally popped up but we still would like to have you introduce yourself so we can get to know you better!
Learning songs. My lifelong struggle. I think some people, like Neil, have the gift. But like he said yesterday, he can remember songs because he understands the theory and structure of the song. Most of us don't have that depth of understanding.
Obviously, there is no substitute for practice, practice and more practice but here are a couple of ideas that have helped me remember songs a little better:
1. Quit staring at the tab!!!! You know the old joke about "How do you get a guitarist to stop playing?" "You put sheet music in front of them!" This is the opposite. "How do you get a guitarist to remember songs?" "Take the sheet music away from them!"
I know I become transfixed on watching the sheet music. But how can you ever remember anything if there is a "cheat sheet" right in front of you? Cheat sheets are fine, for awhile, for the lyrics but I think we should get rid of them for the music as soon as possible. If you can't watch the chart you have to "feel" the music and anticipate the correct chord or notes.
2. Beef up your theory. All guitarists, at every skill level, need a commensurate amount of theory. If you know what key you are in you can really reduce the number of possible chords you could/should play and even perhaps what sequence they are in. For example, if you're playing a song in the key of G, you know there is no F chord. Or the key of A has no C chord. But be careful because many artists pull chords or notes from other keys to get a particular sound.
3. Learn the sequence of chords in a key. For example in the key of C, the chords are C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim. In most folk and rock music the I-IV-V (C-F-G) are a very common chord progressions. If you know this, it will really cut down on guessing what chord might be next. You know not to play an A because Am is the usual chord in that key. This subject gets complex pretty quickly but learning the basics is pretty helpful!
Fluidity. The biggest help I've ever learned, and I learned it from Neil, is using the open stroke before a chord change. I may have been doing it but I wasn't aware of it. It is so common in music I didn't even realize it was being done. This means taking all your fingers off the strings on the very last beat before a chord change. This allows you to get into proper position ON THE BEAT!
This is so powerful and simple it's mind boggling! Watch newer players on their videos and you will see them trying to change chords exactly on time and their playing will always be late and always be choppy. It can't be helped because most music doesn't give you enough time to make the chord changes, at least until you become really proficient.
One last thought about fluidity, again from Yoda aka Neil, is with difficult or complex fingerings, fret them in the order you will play them. Don't try to quickly slam into the next chord but rather fret them as you need the note. My dear friend Michele has become masterful at this and her playing has skyrocketed (Michele, sorry to use you as an example but you are so good at this!). This pertains more to fingerstyle playing than strumming.
Martin, sorry for the long response but I think all of us suffer from both of these issues you brought up to some degree. These aren't problems that are there one day and you fix them the next. They are incremental and will just take time. especially, getting rid of the sheet music.
Oh, did I mention practice? LOL! :silly:
Good luck and great to finally see you on the forum!!
Cheers!! :cheer:
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AcousticAl
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:10 pm
- Status: Offline
BigBear wrote:
Thanks for that Bear.
I learned a few things about theory and why I need to look at that section in this lifetime.
Hey Martin!
A very overdue welcome to another Founding Member! Where have you been hiding? lol! Glad you finally popped up but we still would like to have you introduce yourself so we can get to know you better!
Learning songs. My lifelong struggle. I think some people, like Neil, have the gift. But like he said yesterday, he can remember songs because he understands the theory and structure of the song. Most of us don't have that depth of understanding.
Obviously, there is no substitute for practice, practice and more practice but here are a couple of ideas that have helped me remember songs a little better:
1. Quit staring at the tab!!!! You know the old joke about "How do you get a guitarist to stop playing?" "You put sheet music in front of them!" This is the opposite. "How do you get a guitarist to remember songs?" "Take the sheet music away from them!"
I know I become transfixed on watching the sheet music. But how can you ever remember anything if there is a "cheat sheet" right in front of you? Cheat sheets are fine, for awhile, for the lyrics but I think we should get rid of them for the music as soon as possible. If you can't watch the chart you have to "feel" the music and anticipate the correct chord or notes.
2. Beef up your theory. All guitarists, at every skill level, need a commensurate amount of theory. If you know what key you are in you can really reduce the number of possible chords you could/should play and even perhaps what sequence they are in. For example, if you're playing a song in the key of G, you know there is no F chord. Or the key of A has no C chord. But be careful because many artists pull chords or notes from other keys to get a particular sound.
3. Learn the sequence of chords in a key. For example in the key of C, the chords are C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim. In most folk and rock music the I-IV-V (C-F-G) are a very common chord progressions. If you know this, it will really cut down on guessing what chord might be next. You know not to play an A because Am is the usual chord in that key. This subject gets complex pretty quickly but learning the basics is pretty helpful!
Fluidity. The biggest help I've ever learned, and I learned it from Neil, is using the open stroke before a chord change. I may have been doing it but I wasn't aware of it. It is so common in music I didn't even realize it was being done. This means taking all your fingers off the strings on the very last beat before a chord change. This allows you to get into proper position ON THE BEAT!
This is so powerful and simple it's mind boggling! Watch newer players on their videos and you will see them trying to change chords exactly on time and their playing will always be late and always be choppy. It can't be helped because most music doesn't give you enough time to make the chord changes, at least until you become really proficient.
One last thought about fluidity, again from Yoda aka Neil, is with difficult or complex fingerings, fret them in the order you will play them. Don't try to quickly slam into the next chord but rather fret them as you need the note. My dear friend Michele has become masterful at this and her playing has skyrocketed (Michele, sorry to use you as an example but you are so good at this!). This pertains more to fingerstyle playing than strumming.
Martin, sorry for the long response but I think all of us suffer from both of these issues you brought up to some degree. These aren't problems that are there one day and you fix them the next. They are incremental and will just take time. especially, getting rid of the sheet music.
Oh, did I mention practice? LOL! :silly:
Good luck and great to finally see you on the forum!!
Cheers!! :cheer:
Thanks for that Bear.
I learned a few things about theory and why I need to look at that section in this lifetime.
BigBear wrote:
I have to quote this,,it looks like a big story but it tells you a few things why this site can make you a better guitarist/musican.. Hey BEAR,,you need a hug and they can put this on the front page..Hey Martin!
A very overdue welcome to another Founding Member! Where have you been hiding? lol! Glad you finally popped up but we still would like to have you introduce yourself so we can get to know you better!
Learning songs. My lifelong struggle. I think some people, like Neil, have the gift. But like he said yesterday, he can remember songs because he understands the theory and structure of the song. Most of us don't have that depth of understanding.
Obviously, there is no substitute for practice, practice and more practice but here are a couple of ideas that have helped me remember songs a little better:
1. Quit staring at the tab!!!! You know the old joke about "How do you get a guitarist to stop playing?" "You put sheet music in front of them!" This is the opposite. "How do you get a guitarist to remember songs?" "Take the sheet music away from them!"
I know I become transfixed on watching the sheet music. But how can you ever remember anything if there is a "cheat sheet" right in front of you? Cheat sheets are fine, for awhile, for the lyrics but I think we should get rid of them for the music as soon as possible. If you can't watch the chart you have to "feel" the music and anticipate the correct chord or notes.
2. Beef up your theory. All guitarists, at every skill level, need a commensurate amount of theory. If you know what key you are in you can really reduce the number of possible chords you could/should play and even perhaps what sequence they are in. For example, if you're playing a song in the key of G, you know there is no F chord. Or the key of A has no C chord. But be careful because many artists pull chords or notes from other keys to get a particular sound.
3. Learn the sequence of chords in a key. For example in the key of C, the chords are C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim. In most folk and rock music the I-IV-V (C-F-G) are a very common chord progressions. If you know this, it will really cut down on guessing what chord might be next. You know not to play an A because Am is the usual chord in that key. This subject gets complex pretty quickly but learning the basics is pretty helpful!
Fluidity. The biggest help I've ever learned, and I learned it from Neil, is using the open stroke before a chord change. I may have been doing it but I wasn't aware of it. It is so common in music I didn't even realize it was being done. This means taking all your fingers off the strings on the very last beat before a chord change. This allows you to get into proper position ON THE BEAT!
This is so powerful and simple it's mind boggling! Watch newer players on their videos and you will see them trying to change chords exactly on time and their playing will always be late and always be choppy. It can't be helped because most music doesn't give you enough time to make the chord changes, at least until you become really proficient.
One last thought about fluidity, again from Yoda aka Neil, is with difficult or complex fingerings, fret them in the order you will play them. Don't try to quickly slam into the next chord but rather fret them as you need the note. My dear friend Michele has become masterful at this and her playing has skyrocketed (Michele, sorry to use you as an example but you are so good at this!). This pertains more to fingerstyle playing than strumming.
Martin, sorry for the long response but I think all of us suffer from both of these issues you brought up to some degree. These aren't problems that are there one day and you fix them the next. They are incremental and will just take time. especially, getting rid of the sheet music.
Oh, did I mention practice? LOL! :silly:
Good luck and great to finally see you on the forum!!
Cheers!! :cheer:
willem wrote:
Willem- you and Al are too kind! I was just trying to help another of our family with a common problem. Nothing new here, but maybe I explained it differently.
Thanks for the kind words! I'll take a hug anytime! :cheer:
BigBear wrote:I have to quote this,,it looks like a big story but it tells you a few things why this site can make you a better guitarist/musican.. Hey BEAR,,you need a hug and they can put this on the front page..Hey Martin!
A very overdue welcome to another Founding Member! Where have you been hiding? lol! Glad you finally popped up but we still would like to have you introduce yourself so we can get to know you better!
Learning songs. My lifelong struggle. I think some people, like Neil, have the gift. But like he said yesterday, he can remember songs because he understands the theory and structure of the song. Most of us don't have that depth of understanding.
Obviously, there is no substitute for practice, practice and more practice but here are a couple of ideas that have helped me remember songs a little better:
1. Quit staring at the tab!!!! You know the old joke about "How do you get a guitarist to stop playing?" "You put sheet music in front of them!" This is the opposite. "How do you get a guitarist to remember songs?" "Take the sheet music away from them!"
I know I become transfixed on watching the sheet music. But how can you ever remember anything if there is a "cheat sheet" right in front of you? Cheat sheets are fine, for awhile, for the lyrics but I think we should get rid of them for the music as soon as possible. If you can't watch the chart you have to "feel" the music and anticipate the correct chord or notes.
2. Beef up your theory. All guitarists, at every skill level, need a commensurate amount of theory. If you know what key you are in you can really reduce the number of possible chords you could/should play and even perhaps what sequence they are in. For example, if you're playing a song in the key of G, you know there is no F chord. Or the key of A has no C chord. But be careful because many artists pull chords or notes from other keys to get a particular sound.
3. Learn the sequence of chords in a key. For example in the key of C, the chords are C-Dm-Em-F-G-Am-Bdim. In most folk and rock music the I-IV-V (C-F-G) are a very common chord progressions. If you know this, it will really cut down on guessing what chord might be next. You know not to play an A because Am is the usual chord in that key. This subject gets complex pretty quickly but learning the basics is pretty helpful!
Fluidity. The biggest help I've ever learned, and I learned it from Neil, is using the open stroke before a chord change. I may have been doing it but I wasn't aware of it. It is so common in music I didn't even realize it was being done. This means taking all your fingers off the strings on the very last beat before a chord change. This allows you to get into proper position ON THE BEAT!
This is so powerful and simple it's mind boggling! Watch newer players on their videos and you will see them trying to change chords exactly on time and their playing will always be late and always be choppy. It can't be helped because most music doesn't give you enough time to make the chord changes, at least until you become really proficient.
One last thought about fluidity, again from Yoda aka Neil, is with difficult or complex fingerings, fret them in the order you will play them. Don't try to quickly slam into the next chord but rather fret them as you need the note. My dear friend Michele has become masterful at this and her playing has skyrocketed (Michele, sorry to use you as an example but you are so good at this!). This pertains more to fingerstyle playing than strumming.
Martin, sorry for the long response but I think all of us suffer from both of these issues you brought up to some degree. These aren't problems that are there one day and you fix them the next. They are incremental and will just take time. especially, getting rid of the sheet music.
Oh, did I mention practice? LOL! :silly:
Good luck and great to finally see you on the forum!!
Cheers!! :cheer:
Willem- you and Al are too kind! I was just trying to help another of our family with a common problem. Nothing new here, but maybe I explained it differently.
Thanks for the kind words! I'll take a hug anytime! :cheer:
Hi Martin,
I've got to go with Rick (BigBear) on this one. But I'm not sure if he mentioned Practice. And better yet, Practice with a metronome. After that, you can go back to just regular practice.
Really though. These are issues many of us face. The best way to overcome them is to make a commitment to working your way through them during your practice sessions. When you play, do it for fun, not as a practice.
I've got to go with Rick (BigBear) on this one. But I'm not sure if he mentioned Practice. And better yet, Practice with a metronome. After that, you can go back to just regular practice.
Really though. These are issues many of us face. The best way to overcome them is to make a commitment to working your way through them during your practice sessions. When you play, do it for fun, not as a practice.
Hi Martin, glad to meet you. Everything above including practice practice practice works thru those set backs. What has helped me the most is I found a few folks to play with that are better than me, drummer, bass, couple guitar players and a vocalist. This really taught me to keep going or stop for one measure then start again eventually you get the feel for the song and away you go. Luckily these guys were nice and patient with me to start because I only had about six months of playing when I met them it was hard getting over the shy I feel dumb thing but they made it fun now I have some really good friends. Keep practicing and find someone to jam with !
Go to the introduce yourself thread and let us know where you are from, hobbies etc.....
Mark
Go to the introduce yourself thread and let us know where you are from, hobbies etc.....
Mark
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martinibates
- Posts: 0
- Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:59 am
- Status: Offline
I have now posted a brief intro as suggested. Thanks for all the replies and as I said in the intro I guess its mainly down to practice. I am also reminded of another piece of advice I was given some time ago (and forgotten). At first practice as slowly as you need to get it right - don't practice mistakes.