Windy and Warm - Chord E7 + 9

[thereshopeyet]

Neil

In Windy and Warm Measure 51 the Chord E7 +9, doesn't include the 5th [ B ]
How does that affect the chord naming ?






Thanks

Dermot


Previous Information Learned

Note Letter Naming Rule:
Each scale note letter name can only be used once.
The scale note letter names of E major are: E F# G# A B C# D# E

If F# is raised (sharpened)
The next musical alphabetic note naming letter that follows F# is G.
In the scale of E major "G" has already been used in note name "G#"
F# raised is therefore named F## (Double Sharp) to maintain the note letter naming rule.

Neil's Earlier Forum Explanation Re + and Add

Generally the terms augmented and diminished are only used to refer to altered 5ths in a chord. All other intervals are done with +/- or # / b preceding the number they are altering.

E7add9 is redundant for E9, as add9 means add the numbered note without adding the 7th. The best term for E7 with F## (sometimes known incorrectly as G in this case) is E7+9 or E7#9.

+ and Add are different terms and functions.

Add 9 Chords For Guitar
The add9 chord is a major triad with an additional ninth.
Unlike the regular 9th chord, the add9 has no seventh.
Ex: Cadd9 consists of the notes C, E, G and D.

[willem]

so the F## = G ?


Willem

[thereshopeyet]

Hi Willem

The F## ( instead of G ) in the key of E is the correct name for the raised 9th ( #9 ).

In Windy and Warm the 5th isn't included in the chord Neil named as E7+9

E7 = 1,3,5,b7
+9 = F##
So..............
E7+9 = 1, 3, 5, b7, +9
E7+9 = E, G#, B, D, F##

I was wondering if the missing 5th would change the chord name?

[Music Junkie]

thereshopeyet wrote:

Hi Willem

The F## ( instead of G ) in the key of E is the correct name for the raised 9th ( #9 ).

In Windy and Warm the 5th isn't included in the chord Neil named as E7+9

E7 = 1,3,5,b7
+9 = F##
So..............
E7+9 = 1, 3, 5, b7, +9
E7+9 = E, G#, B, D, F##

I was wondering if the missing 5th would change the chord name?

Dermot:

Hopefully somebody with a bit more understanding will chime in for you. I do remember learning somewhere that once you start getting into the 9ths, 11ths and 13ths, some notes get dropped out, but the overall chord still has a certain feel to it, and your ear hears certain things due to overtones..... So dropping the 5th may not necessarily change the name of the chord. I thought the water could be muddied up a bit more for you.... :woohoo:

[thereshopeyet]

Jason

I think I heard something like that too about the 5th being dropped didn't matter but can't remember
the full reasoning considering it's part of the chord formula.

:S

[Music Junkie]

thereshopeyet wrote:

Jason

I think I heard something like that too about the 5th being dropped didn't matter but can't remember
the full reasoning considering it's part of the chord formula.

:S

The simple answer is "overtones"..... The detailed answer is not currently in my repertoire.... :laugh:

[thereshopeyet]

Jason Wrote:

The simple answer is "overtones".....

I think the 5th overtones ( harmonics ) are close to the root reinforcing the root sound and don't contribute to the chord quality as does the 3rd (Major), b3 (minor), 7th etc. I suppose that would be good enough reason for the missing 5th not changing the chord name.

Overtones :dry:

[RicksPick]

Hi Dermot

I was goimg to say that its not missed out
My thinking is that Neil has not shown it because it isnt used in fingerpicking that perticular chord, Alternating base 6 and 4th
Is this what you were asking?

Rick

[thereshopeyet]

Rick Wrote:

Is this what you were asking?

Hi Rick
No, ........ looking at the GPro 6 chord diagram I posted shows the chord Neil named and all the chord tones. It includes the 5th.

In Windy and Warm, I posted the chord diagram Neil fingerpicks.
I was asking if the left out 5th, would change the chord name.

How are you getting on with Windy and Warm now.

Dermot

[thereshopeyet]

Neil

Thanks for the E7 +9 explanation in this weeks news.

The Weekly News Friday 13th June 14 4:38 Minutes In.