Fretting Hand Position Woes

Neil replies to questions from our members.
spinland
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Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:44 am

Wow, Vanessa, you have me on the spot now! Just like a born teacher. :side:

Philosophy first. Growing up, singing gave me joy. i was good at it, and people liked hearing me do it, and I fed on that approval. I added guitar later in life as personal accompaniment, not as my focus.

I've done my time as a professional in the high-powered rat race, and now I'm a starving but happy artist doing creative stuff for a living and feeding my soul instead of my portfolio. I need music back in my life to help the healing.

I want to play what's in my head, to go with singing it, as a seamless whole. I don't need a limo and security guards keeping the hordes of screaming groupies at bay, but I do want to become good enough that my playing chops aren't in the way of the musical experiences I want to create.

That's not a very specific answer but honestly I had not thought in these terms before so work with me here. B)


TGNesh
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Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:20 pm

:laugh: That's not a very specific answer indeed, but sure I'll work with you. :P

You know, whatever one's goals are, and sometimes people wouldn't know their exact goals just yet, what you don't want in the end is to not reach your full potential as a musician, in this case guitarplayer. You don't want to be limited in playing what's in your head etc. because of 'sloppy' technique. Some might reach that point fast and others will never get there. If you want to become the best musician or vocalist as you can be, then you háve to pay full attention to correct technique.

In thruth I like the fact that you analyze what you're fingers are doing. Especially when learning new stuff, chord shapes etc. You háve to monitor your fingers and make them do what they should be doing. Only you can do that. Fingers are faithful servants, but yóu have to monitor and control them and move them as desired.

So indeed, don't let your guitar playing chops get in the way of the things you want to create musically. And at one point you will, if you don't work at it. Make sure you do it the 'correct way' first. You will see lots of fantastic guitar players get in and out of correct handpositioning all the time, because they're able to. Some playing context's require more of one or the other. So you want to be able to do that as well.

I get the 'just do it', but that could be pretty harmful. It's easier to learn something new the right way, then to relearn something which wasn't right to begin with.

I feel like writing a novel, but I'm gonna leave it here for now. Again, think about what it is what you really want to achieve, more specifically that is. ;)




spinland wrote:
Wow, Vanessa, you have me on the spot now! Just like a born teacher. :side:

Philosophy first. Growing up, singing gave me joy. i was good at it, and people liked hearing me do it, and I fed on that approval. I added guitar later in life as personal accompaniment, not as my focus.

I've done my time as a professional in the high-powered rat race, and now I'm a starving but happy artist doing creative stuff for a living and feeding my soul instead of my portfolio. I need music back in my life to help the healing.

I want to play what's in my head, to go with singing it, as a seamless whole. I don't need a limo and security guards keeping the hordes of screaming groupies at bay, but I do want to become good enough that my playing chops aren't in the way of the musical experiences I want to create.

That's not a very specific answer but honestly I had not thought in these terms before so work with me here. B)


spinland
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Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:08 am

Okay, Vanessa (do you mind if I call you Ness? I don't get so familiar with people I haven't known for long unless I ask), time to do some thinking about my goals (more in-depth than than my high level mission statement in the other thread).

The two things that top my current priority list as I see it right now:

• Teach my fretting fingers the fretboard, so that they know where to go when I want a note or chord, and have the accuracy, speed and strength to get there in tempo.

• Teach my picking fingers the "big three" fingerpicking styles so they settle in automagically. I can add variations later.

By "big three" I refer to Steve Stine's lexicon (I've been following his Guitar Zoom Facebook page, which is one of the few reasons I even go to that site). He teaches "floor to ceiling," "ceiling to floor," and "out and in" which is sometimes called the "Dust in the Wind" pattern. His contention is, once you have those comfortably down, most everything else you'll try to do is just a variation on those general patterns. That's the light bulb in my brain that convinced me I could do it.

Is that specific enough now? :side:


TGNesh
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Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:04 am

Of course you can call me Ness! :) In thruth, it always sounds weird to me when people use my full name, since, especially in real life, hardly anyone around me does. Except when someone is mad at me, then all of a sudden they use my full name, haha! :ohmy: :laugh: But it's thoughtful of you to ask.

And yes, that's certainly more specific. I think when you read my earlier response (the one that could've turned into a novel :laugh: ), that you can figure what I would respond or recommend. In short, I'd say, get rid of any unwanted 'sloppy' technique. Make sure you got the basic tools for both hands in your toolbox, so you'll never be limited in playing the things you want to play. Don't 'just do it', make sure you practice correctly and do it right.

Ness


wrsomers
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Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:03 pm

TGVanessa wrote:
Don't 'just do it', make sure you practice correctly and do it right.

Ness
Ouch, that's two times you slapped my hand! :laugh: :laugh:

Bill


TGNesh
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Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:06 am

I was worries you would take it as such :ohmy: , although I hope you can also just laugh about it! B) :kiss:

I really get where you're coming from and in general it will work good enough for most intermediate guitar players (which is what many artist guitar players are). As Neil puts it, they are all in general very happy campers and it's the biggest group of guitar players too.

That said, at one point if one would like to grow vertically more instead of only horizontally, using both hands efficiently will absolutely matter. (that's why I asked Mark for his goals) I could compare it with weightlifting, if you're strong you'll be able to lift quite a bit, you just yank it off the floor. But at one point you get stuck, once the weights get heavier it ain't gonna work anymore. Add technique and the weight just flies up. This is my own personal experience actually. I've been amazed how much more I am able to lift these days by working on technique.

I hope you can take my 'slapping your hand', it's just that I'd be a bad teacher if i wouldn't point it out. :)

wrsomers wrote:
TGVanessa wrote:
Don't 'just do it', make sure you practice correctly and do it right.

Ness
Ouch, that's two times you slapped my hand! :laugh: :laugh:

Bill


wrsomers
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Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:16 am

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ness,
You know I took it with a laugh, I guess I didn't include enough of them in my comment :P . And sure I can take it, my personal trainer, is after me all the time to use proper technique; both you and her are great teachers and I welcome corrections from my two gurus :)

Anyway, I definitely agree with you that guitar technique is ultra important. What I was saying is that sometimes you have to give it a break and just let loose. Otherwise, at least to me, it becomes all work and no fun.

As fjeanmur said, a little of both goes a long way to making practice fun. For me, if I'm learning a song, I'll start with the basics...progression, lyrics, phrasing, etc. Once I'm happy with those things, I pay attention to the details of making the song better and as Neil says "try to make it your own".

I'd love to be able to mimic the hand positions you and Neil have, but it's not going to happen, because my left hand fingers won't allow it. They just don't bend straight. That's why I'm always happy when you and Neil include alternate ways of playing a chord or fill in your lessons. "There is more than one way to bake a cake". :)

Thanks for all you do Ness. You know I think your lessons are tops. At the moment I'm still working on "I Can't Make You Love Me" and several other songs...so much to learn and so little time.

Hugs,
Bill


TGNesh
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Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:03 pm

Many thanks for the reassurance Bill!! :lol: :silly:

I'm glad that Monika kicks your butt too! :laugh: :laugh: :P

Really, I get what you're saying, I do. And giving things a break here and there is of course a good thing to do.

I also absolutely appreciate your generous and kind comments on my lessons, that's always really nice to hear. Appreciation is just always nice to get. Awesome to hear you're working on 'I Can't Make You Love Me', would love to hear it!

Big hug right back at ya! xo


wrsomers wrote:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ness,
You know I took it with a laugh, I guess I didn't include enough of them in my comment :P . And sure I can take it, my personal trainer, is after me all the time to use proper technique; both you and her are great teachers and I welcome corrections from my two gurus :)

Anyway, I definitely agree with you that guitar technique is ultra important. What I was saying is that sometimes you have to give it a break and just let loose. Otherwise, at least to me, it becomes all work and no fun.

As fjeanmur said, a little of both goes a long way to making practice fun. For me, if I'm learning a song, I'll start with the basics...progression, lyrics, phrasing, etc. Once I'm happy with those things, I pay attention to the details of making the song better and as Neil says "try to make it your own".

I'd love to be able to mimic the hand positions you and Neil have, but it's not going to happen, because my left hand fingers won't allow it. They just don't bend straight. That's why I'm always happy when you and Neil include alternate ways of playing a chord or fill in your lessons. "There is more than one way to bake a cake". :)

Thanks for all you do Ness. You know I think your lessons are tops. At the moment I'm still working on "I Can't Make You Love Me" and several other songs...so much to learn and so little time.

Hugs,
Bill


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