Come on Chas, just cut back on one or two bottles of that high dollar scotch, and you'll be there :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Great idea, I've bought my Lotto ticket cos that's the only way I'll ever make it. I look forward to the videos and stories that will come out of this though.
One thought even though I won't make it; an exclusive couple of days for TG'ers then bring in the general public might be cool.
>> I am out of hibernation here is why ? TG's first Guitar camp
Chasplaya wrote:
sbutler wrote:
Hmm that and saving the Lotto money instead of buying the actual lotto ticket might get me there by 2015
50 bottles might get my airfare lolChasplaya wrote:Come on Chas, just cut back on one or two bottles of that high dollar scotch, and you'll be there :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Great idea, I've bought my Lotto ticket cos that's the only way I'll ever make it. I look forward to the videos and stories that will come out of this though.
One thought even though I won't make it; an exclusive couple of days for TG'ers then bring in the general public might be cool.
Hmm that and saving the Lotto money instead of buying the actual lotto ticket might get me there by 2015-
Music Junkie
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Matt:
Can't wait to hear the details. My summer is filling up too, but if it is going to be in the San Jose area, like you mention, I might be able to work that out easily enough. It is only 5-6 hours north of here. As far as topics, I would agree with a lot of what has been said already. Maybe some lessons dealing with composition or working out progressions. Also maybe something on ear training...... I would love the opportunity to get together with other TG members for something like this. Hopefully there will be some folks who can make it. If not, I'll hang with you and Neil, if you'll have me....
Jason
Can't wait to hear the details. My summer is filling up too, but if it is going to be in the San Jose area, like you mention, I might be able to work that out easily enough. It is only 5-6 hours north of here. As far as topics, I would agree with a lot of what has been said already. Maybe some lessons dealing with composition or working out progressions. Also maybe something on ear training...... I would love the opportunity to get together with other TG members for something like this. Hopefully there will be some folks who can make it. If not, I'll hang with you and Neil, if you'll have me....
Jason
Hi Matt,
I don't really like long posts, and I never read them, so I'll keep this as tidy as possible. I can understand you not wanting to be compared to other camps, but it's difficult to tell you what I want in a camp without telling you what I've experienced first-hand, and to explain why the feature did or didn't work for me. So the following is a list of things I'd want to see at camp, and even a couple of questions I'd have for you. This is just off the top of my head, so they're in no particular order and I reserve the right to think of more later.
1. Why Northern California? There's already an existing camp (California Coast Music Camp) that will be running at almost the same time yours will be. Yeah, I get that there are a lot of guitar players up there, but my observation is that many people who go to a specific camp are usually very loyal to it. If they get everything they want from a specific camp and they have a wonderful experience, they're going to be somewhat reluctant to try a new, untested one. So why not start out in a region where you're not fighting a loyal fan base with entrenched perceptions?
2. Location. Nature is good. Nature is relaxing. Nature is inspirational. So that's where I'd hope to find a camp. In the middle of nature ... not in a warehouse space and not even on a college campus. Having the camp in a remote location also discourages visitors (see #5).
3. Food. It should be relatively healthy and plentiful. There should also be a vegetarian and vegan option -- three meals a day. In between meals, there should always be coffee, tea, and munchies available. By the way, if you have someone there running a Starbucks-type coffee machine, you'd make a freaking fortune. That's one thing missing from my camp that I wish they'd consider.
4. Limit registrations. You can only comfortably deal with a finite number of people at camp. The Puget Sound Guitar Workshop limits registrations to about 120. Any more than that and the food lines get ridiculously long and the class sizes get too large. You can't limit the class sizes selectively because people are coming to camp in the first place to take specific classes, so they have to be open to everyone who shows up. Some classes will see 35 people, other classes only 3. That's the way it goes.
5. No visitors. It's incredibly disruptive to have strangers coming and going through the camp. It's also a safety risk. And it'll make the food lines that much longer. PSGW has a little store that sells T-shirts, ball caps, fleece, CDs, and other tchotchkes. Someone is usually in the store to make the sales, but when there's no one there, students are encouraged to pay for their own goods, make change in the petty cash drawer, and take what they pay for. To my knowledge, in 35 years, no one has stolen any goods or taken money from petty cash. That's an amazing thing, don't you think? Camp-goers, apparently, are honest people. Visitors, not necessarily. One more thing: at our camp, guitars are left everywhere. Amazingly, none of them gets stolen or even touched. The same applies to our rooms, which don't have locks on them. See what I mean? No visitors. Ever.
6. No children. Going to a guitar camp is, for many people, the most wonderful vacation they'll ever have. But it's not a family vacation. No one wants to invest his or her entire year's vacation time, not to mention a substantial amount of money, only to hear kids whining about this or that. I'd make the cutoff point 14 and above.
7. Increase in ability. Just to reset your expectations, people probably aren't going to "...move their skill levels forward exponentially" after attending camp for one week. It's enough to say they'll get tips and learn techniques from excellent working musicians that will have the students playing better than they ever have. But an exponential increase in ability? Even an old ad man like me can't stomach a claim like that.
8. Other instruments. I would offer classes for instruments other than guitar -- instruments that you'd typically find in an acoustic guitar setting, such as mandolin, uke, upright bass, even dobro. And I'd provide a few instruments for these classes, given that they'll be populated by beginners who likely won't have their own instruments. Okay, maybe they'll have ukes, but not the other instruments.
9. Voice. It's fun to sing. It's also fun to sing with other people. Voice classes can serve two purposes: they can help people to understand how to get the most out of their voices, and they can give them a safe opportunity to sing along with a group of people.
10. Performance. It's the dream of a lot of people to overcome their fear and step up on stage to perform. A class that shows people how to do that would be invaluable. It would also prepare them for the ...
11. Student concert. This is a concert for students who wish to volunteer to perform. Performance is definitely not a requirement. At my first camp, about 90 people out of 120 volunteered. At my second camp, about 75 did. Each person (or group) gets to do one song, with all the backup musicians and singers (and camp-suppplied sound equipment) they need, so you can see that the concert goes on for many hours. But it's a beautiful thing to watch a person, who's never been on stage before, nervously begin a song, slowly get into it, then blow away the world's most supportive audience. One more thing regarding the student concert ...
12. Video record it. A lot of people will pay for the opportunity to have a lasting memento of their performance. They'll cherish it. Watch it over and over. But they can't do that unless you make a professional-quality recording of it. Nice little money-making opportunity for you, too, if you keep the price reasonable.
13. Various classes. I'm not going to elaborate on what types of classes you might offer, since other people have already got that covered. But I would suggest you avoid making the classes too specific. Here's an example of what I mean: there was a wonderful blues instructor by the name of Josh White Jr. at my camp. Great guy. Talented musician. Anyway, he offered a class called Learn to Play the Blues of Josh White. I'm sure it was an excellent class. I was also fairly sure it was very poorly attended, since almost no one has heard of Josh White. When I asked him about it, he confirmed that there were only a couple of people in his class. He'd have done a whole lot better, I think, if he'd simply called the class Learn to Play the Blues. He could then have used his father's music (and the music of some other blues players) as course material. Keep the class titles general.
14. Surprise guest. Surprises are good. Especially when we know that the surprise will consist of a well-known guitarist who will make an appearance at the camp and perform. Not knowing ahead of time who this person is will be a good thing. It will also set you apart from all the other camps. It will be something that people will greatly anticipate.
15. Use TG as a model. By that I mean that you'll (hopefully!) draw students from across the entire spectrum of musical ability -- from those who've never touched a guitar before to those who just can't seem to put the damn thing down. Regardless of a person's ability, there should be enough classes for her or him to choose from for each class period. Which brings me to ...
16. Manage time well. PSGW has two classes after breakfast and one after lunch. Each class is about 75 minutes long (a good length) and there's a 15 minute free period between the morning classes, which the students need to get from one class to another.
17. Jam it. After the third class of the day, students often enjoy going to the various jams around camp. Some of the jams are structured and some are spontaneous. Among the structured jams at my camp is one called a Slow Jam, where beginning guitarists can play along to 3- and 4-chord songs ... and more experienced guitarists can practice playing leads and fills. David (Catman), who's an excellent guitarist, got to practice his lead skills at the Slow Jam, and he came back to it day after day. It's fun. Other themed jams could be fun, too. I'll probably organize a Beatles jam at my next camp, since most people seem to know at least one moptop tune.
That's all for now.
I don't really like long posts, and I never read them, so I'll keep this as tidy as possible. I can understand you not wanting to be compared to other camps, but it's difficult to tell you what I want in a camp without telling you what I've experienced first-hand, and to explain why the feature did or didn't work for me. So the following is a list of things I'd want to see at camp, and even a couple of questions I'd have for you. This is just off the top of my head, so they're in no particular order and I reserve the right to think of more later.
1. Why Northern California? There's already an existing camp (California Coast Music Camp) that will be running at almost the same time yours will be. Yeah, I get that there are a lot of guitar players up there, but my observation is that many people who go to a specific camp are usually very loyal to it. If they get everything they want from a specific camp and they have a wonderful experience, they're going to be somewhat reluctant to try a new, untested one. So why not start out in a region where you're not fighting a loyal fan base with entrenched perceptions?
2. Location. Nature is good. Nature is relaxing. Nature is inspirational. So that's where I'd hope to find a camp. In the middle of nature ... not in a warehouse space and not even on a college campus. Having the camp in a remote location also discourages visitors (see #5).
3. Food. It should be relatively healthy and plentiful. There should also be a vegetarian and vegan option -- three meals a day. In between meals, there should always be coffee, tea, and munchies available. By the way, if you have someone there running a Starbucks-type coffee machine, you'd make a freaking fortune. That's one thing missing from my camp that I wish they'd consider.
4. Limit registrations. You can only comfortably deal with a finite number of people at camp. The Puget Sound Guitar Workshop limits registrations to about 120. Any more than that and the food lines get ridiculously long and the class sizes get too large. You can't limit the class sizes selectively because people are coming to camp in the first place to take specific classes, so they have to be open to everyone who shows up. Some classes will see 35 people, other classes only 3. That's the way it goes.
5. No visitors. It's incredibly disruptive to have strangers coming and going through the camp. It's also a safety risk. And it'll make the food lines that much longer. PSGW has a little store that sells T-shirts, ball caps, fleece, CDs, and other tchotchkes. Someone is usually in the store to make the sales, but when there's no one there, students are encouraged to pay for their own goods, make change in the petty cash drawer, and take what they pay for. To my knowledge, in 35 years, no one has stolen any goods or taken money from petty cash. That's an amazing thing, don't you think? Camp-goers, apparently, are honest people. Visitors, not necessarily. One more thing: at our camp, guitars are left everywhere. Amazingly, none of them gets stolen or even touched. The same applies to our rooms, which don't have locks on them. See what I mean? No visitors. Ever.
6. No children. Going to a guitar camp is, for many people, the most wonderful vacation they'll ever have. But it's not a family vacation. No one wants to invest his or her entire year's vacation time, not to mention a substantial amount of money, only to hear kids whining about this or that. I'd make the cutoff point 14 and above.
7. Increase in ability. Just to reset your expectations, people probably aren't going to "...move their skill levels forward exponentially" after attending camp for one week. It's enough to say they'll get tips and learn techniques from excellent working musicians that will have the students playing better than they ever have. But an exponential increase in ability? Even an old ad man like me can't stomach a claim like that.
8. Other instruments. I would offer classes for instruments other than guitar -- instruments that you'd typically find in an acoustic guitar setting, such as mandolin, uke, upright bass, even dobro. And I'd provide a few instruments for these classes, given that they'll be populated by beginners who likely won't have their own instruments. Okay, maybe they'll have ukes, but not the other instruments.
9. Voice. It's fun to sing. It's also fun to sing with other people. Voice classes can serve two purposes: they can help people to understand how to get the most out of their voices, and they can give them a safe opportunity to sing along with a group of people.
10. Performance. It's the dream of a lot of people to overcome their fear and step up on stage to perform. A class that shows people how to do that would be invaluable. It would also prepare them for the ...
11. Student concert. This is a concert for students who wish to volunteer to perform. Performance is definitely not a requirement. At my first camp, about 90 people out of 120 volunteered. At my second camp, about 75 did. Each person (or group) gets to do one song, with all the backup musicians and singers (and camp-suppplied sound equipment) they need, so you can see that the concert goes on for many hours. But it's a beautiful thing to watch a person, who's never been on stage before, nervously begin a song, slowly get into it, then blow away the world's most supportive audience. One more thing regarding the student concert ...
12. Video record it. A lot of people will pay for the opportunity to have a lasting memento of their performance. They'll cherish it. Watch it over and over. But they can't do that unless you make a professional-quality recording of it. Nice little money-making opportunity for you, too, if you keep the price reasonable.
13. Various classes. I'm not going to elaborate on what types of classes you might offer, since other people have already got that covered. But I would suggest you avoid making the classes too specific. Here's an example of what I mean: there was a wonderful blues instructor by the name of Josh White Jr. at my camp. Great guy. Talented musician. Anyway, he offered a class called Learn to Play the Blues of Josh White. I'm sure it was an excellent class. I was also fairly sure it was very poorly attended, since almost no one has heard of Josh White. When I asked him about it, he confirmed that there were only a couple of people in his class. He'd have done a whole lot better, I think, if he'd simply called the class Learn to Play the Blues. He could then have used his father's music (and the music of some other blues players) as course material. Keep the class titles general.
14. Surprise guest. Surprises are good. Especially when we know that the surprise will consist of a well-known guitarist who will make an appearance at the camp and perform. Not knowing ahead of time who this person is will be a good thing. It will also set you apart from all the other camps. It will be something that people will greatly anticipate.
15. Use TG as a model. By that I mean that you'll (hopefully!) draw students from across the entire spectrum of musical ability -- from those who've never touched a guitar before to those who just can't seem to put the damn thing down. Regardless of a person's ability, there should be enough classes for her or him to choose from for each class period. Which brings me to ...
16. Manage time well. PSGW has two classes after breakfast and one after lunch. Each class is about 75 minutes long (a good length) and there's a 15 minute free period between the morning classes, which the students need to get from one class to another.
17. Jam it. After the third class of the day, students often enjoy going to the various jams around camp. Some of the jams are structured and some are spontaneous. Among the structured jams at my camp is one called a Slow Jam, where beginning guitarists can play along to 3- and 4-chord songs ... and more experienced guitarists can practice playing leads and fills. David (Catman), who's an excellent guitarist, got to practice his lead skills at the Slow Jam, and he came back to it day after day. It's fun. Other themed jams could be fun, too. I'll probably organize a Beatles jam at my next camp, since most people seem to know at least one moptop tune.
That's all for now.
What an outstanding post Dennis. I read it with great interest and everything you said made perfect sense.....naturally I was blown away.
Hilarious ribbing aside, thanks for taking the time to record those thoughts and suggestions in such detail.
Hilarious ribbing aside, thanks for taking the time to record those thoughts and suggestions in such detail.
-
thereshopeyet
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 4:19 pm
- Status: Offline
Absolutely agree with Tony, great post Dennis, thanks for taking the time!!
Oh btw.....I'll likely won't go to any camp, but if I would maybe win the lottery, or if my dad would be very generous, I'd absolutely join you and the others in Seattle!
Still a TG-camp someday would be awesome too! :cheer:
tovo wrote:
Oh btw.....I'll likely won't go to any camp, but if I would maybe win the lottery, or if my dad would be very generous, I'd absolutely join you and the others in Seattle!
Still a TG-camp someday would be awesome too! :cheer:
tovo wrote:
What an outstanding post Dennis. I read it with great interest and everything you said made perfect sense.....naturally I was blown away.
Hilarious ribbing aside, thanks for taking the time to record those thoughts and suggestions in such detail.