But are you swimming in Martins, Taylors, Santa Cruz's, and Collings like us?Well who think that eh!! You get a better choice of guitars in little old NZ than America lol
lolG.A.S.
gingold wrote:
We get em all lol More than enough and some, another goody is the Maton brand very popular with Neil Finn of Crowded House fameChasplaya wrote:But are you swimming in Martins, Taylors, Santa Cruz's, and Collings like us?Well who think that eh!! You get a better choice of guitars in little old NZ than America lol
Greg, did I forget to mention that when Chas returned you might hear about another guitar, Cole Clark, ya, I think I did. BTW That is what I was looking at getting was a Martin 000 omc 16 series, for it's size, shape and I want the cutaway which I think the 16 series has a good choice of. Then I joined TG. Oh yea, I'm going to San Diego this Wednesday coming back following Wed. going to stop at San Diego Old Time Music anything you need me to pick up for you. Gary.
Greg, I wonder if they'll let me play some of those 5, 6K ax's without making me wear a flanel apron to prevent belt, button etc. scratches?? I'd be a little hesitant to just hand over some of those guitars to any ol body and say have a go at it. Hell ya, give me a pick and stand back, I feel a little Jimi commin on. Gary
Greg, forgot to ask. Are you familiar with Red Spruce? I think it was grown in WA and Canada. Tacoma Guitars used some of it and 1 of my Guilds made in Tacoma factory used redwood spruce top. My Luthier said Martin used to use it extensively for their tops back in the 40's - 60's until they logged it out. He said they are starting to get some 2nd growth from trees that were replanted after their mass logging. Guess they would be around 60 to 70 years old now. Just curious since it sounds like you live in that neck of the woods. Gary
goldleaf wrote:
The grain of Red Spruce is generally wider than Sitka but is still supposed to deliver great sound and take less time to "open up". From an article by Dana Bourgeois: "Red spruce is relatively heavy, has a high velocity of sound, and has the highest stiffness across and along the grain of all the topwoods. Like Sitka, it has strong fundamentals, but it also exhibits a more complex overtone content. Tops made out of red spruce have the highest volume ceiling of any species, yet they also have a rich fullness of tone that retains clarity at all dynamic levels."
Picea rubens, AKA Red Spruce or Adirondack Spruce. It is actually native to the eastern U.S. Martin did use it extensively during their vintage era (30's-60's) and due to supply issues went to Sitka Spruce for their standard guitar. Red Spruce is still available but will cost you. Martin uses it on some of their Authentic and Golden Era series, as well as some Signature models.Greg, forgot to ask. Are you familiar with Red Spruce? I think it was grown in WA and Canada. Tacoma Guitars used some of it and 1 of my Guilds made in Tacoma factory used redwood spruce top. My Luthier said Martin used to use it extensively for their tops back in the 40's - 60's until they logged it out. He said they are starting to get some 2nd growth from trees that were replanted after their mass logging. Guess they would be around 60 to 70 years old now. Just curious since it sounds like you live in that neck of the woods. Gary
The grain of Red Spruce is generally wider than Sitka but is still supposed to deliver great sound and take less time to "open up". From an article by Dana Bourgeois: "Red spruce is relatively heavy, has a high velocity of sound, and has the highest stiffness across and along the grain of all the topwoods. Like Sitka, it has strong fundamentals, but it also exhibits a more complex overtone content. Tops made out of red spruce have the highest volume ceiling of any species, yet they also have a rich fullness of tone that retains clarity at all dynamic levels."
Greg, You know your tonewoods, no doubt. I guess I have to give my Luthier a little more credit. When he was inspecting my Guild Co-2c he was surprised to see that it had a red spruce top and gave me the explanation re: martin and red spruce supply issues and it's qualities. I honestly didn't know how much of his explanation was accurate. Might as well ask my last 2 spruce questions. How does Englemann Spruce compare to the Red spruce, and the "AAA Solid Sitka Spruce", I haven't seen the phrase "AAA Solid Sitka Spruce" that I can remember, just Sitka Spruce top. Any guesses why Guild listed it that way in it's basic description? Also if cost was not an issue which would you choose for a top w/ maple sides & back. I really do appreciate your patience with my questions and your detailed answers. Gary
Gary--Thanks, I have done some research on the subject. As for Engelmann Spruce I don't have much direct experience. I do know it's supposed to be warmer with greater sustain than Sitka. As for comparing it to Red Spruce I'm not qualified to answer that question, having relatively little contact with either. There is another Spruce variety--German Spruce--that is also used for top wood.
I wouldn't get too caught up in grading ("AAA", "Premium", "Select", etc.). Each company uses their own grading methods and sometimes nomenclature. How the log is cut plays a part in it as well--if it's quartersawn or not. It really comes down to price. A company's $800 guitar likely won't have the same quality of top as their $6000 one. But in actuality there's probably nothing wrong with the $800 guitar's top--it might not have the straightest and tightest grain or bear clawing but on its own wouldn't make or break a guitar.
If cost were no issue? Ho boy, here we go... I would give almost anything for a vintage (or even a new) Brazilian Rosewood/Adirondack 000/OM guitar. Unless I win the lottery it probably won't happen any time soon. As for matching a top to maple back and sides I'd have to inquire at several builders who could give me feedback on how each topwood responds to maple. This starts getting into custom guitars however and way outside my price range. It may also be splitting hairs for me as well because a lot of it comes down not only to the quality of the woods, but the skill of the builder as well.
Factor in things like bracing woods and patterns, glues, neck attachment, soundhole shape and placement, and, and, and (pant! pant!)... it's easy to see that all factors create the sound, not one.
Sorry for the tangent--I hope I've answered your questions. :unsure:
P.S.: Congrats on the Guild Co-2c. Yes, it is a Red Spruce top..fine guitar!
And yes, I think Martin's 16 Series is one of the best values in quality, solid wood acoustic guitars. For the $ I'd even be getting some ornamentation: a bound fingerboard, a blue Puau shell rosette, and style 45 backstripe. From the other 16s I've played I think they're great working guitars you don't have to be afraid to take places.
I wouldn't get too caught up in grading ("AAA", "Premium", "Select", etc.). Each company uses their own grading methods and sometimes nomenclature. How the log is cut plays a part in it as well--if it's quartersawn or not. It really comes down to price. A company's $800 guitar likely won't have the same quality of top as their $6000 one. But in actuality there's probably nothing wrong with the $800 guitar's top--it might not have the straightest and tightest grain or bear clawing but on its own wouldn't make or break a guitar.
If cost were no issue? Ho boy, here we go... I would give almost anything for a vintage (or even a new) Brazilian Rosewood/Adirondack 000/OM guitar. Unless I win the lottery it probably won't happen any time soon. As for matching a top to maple back and sides I'd have to inquire at several builders who could give me feedback on how each topwood responds to maple. This starts getting into custom guitars however and way outside my price range. It may also be splitting hairs for me as well because a lot of it comes down not only to the quality of the woods, but the skill of the builder as well.
Factor in things like bracing woods and patterns, glues, neck attachment, soundhole shape and placement, and, and, and (pant! pant!)... it's easy to see that all factors create the sound, not one.
Sorry for the tangent--I hope I've answered your questions. :unsure:
P.S.: Congrats on the Guild Co-2c. Yes, it is a Red Spruce top..fine guitar!
And yes, I think Martin's 16 Series is one of the best values in quality, solid wood acoustic guitars. For the $ I'd even be getting some ornamentation: a bound fingerboard, a blue Puau shell rosette, and style 45 backstripe. From the other 16s I've played I think they're great working guitars you don't have to be afraid to take places.
gingold wrote:
That's exactly why I won't be plunking down my hard-earned shekels for the honey top Taylor 814ce I've fallen for just yet; not until I get to try some Martin 16 series. To do that, I have to arrange for the big-town music shop to bring some in from the distributor.And yes, I think Martin's 16 Series is one of the best values in quality, solid wood acoustic guitars. For the $ I'd even be getting some ornamentation: a bound fingerboard, a blue Puau shell rosette, and style 45 backstripe. From the other 16s I've played I think they're great working guitars you don't have to be afraid to take places.